Amanda Epp - CEO at ScriptDrop: Creating a Network Effect, Building a Customer Flywheel, and Being Your Authentic Self as CEO

Amanda Epp  00:00

Follow your heart, follow your gut, follow whatever is leading you to show up and do the best job you can, and then be open to the possibilities. And I never thought I would be a CEO. I didn't want to be a CEO. But I was open, I had learned, I've worked really hard, and I absorbed and was curious. And now here I am.

Callan Harrington  00:23

You're listening to That Worked, a show that breaks down the careers of top founders and executives and pulls out those key items that led to their success. I'm your host, Callan Harrington, founder of Flashgrowth, and I couldn't be more excited that you're here. Welcome back, everyone to another episode of That Worked. I'm excited for this week's episode. I'm joined by Amanda Epp. Amanda is a founding team member and the CEO of ScriptDrop. ScriptDrop is the only healthcare IT company specializing in medication access that serves patients in all fifty states. ScriptDrop works alongside its healthcare partners to deliver medication access opportunities through technology, empathy, and health care expertise. Previously, Amanda was an early employee of CoverMyMeds, moving up the ranks to ultimately serve as director of new product implementation. She played a significant role in the company's exponential growth and its eventual sale to McKesson in 2017. For $1.4 billion. She also co founded the nonprofit foundation, Go Get the World, an organization that supports and empowers young women in college or earlier in their careers. I learned a lot in this episode. We talked about how to create a network effect, how to build a customer flywheel, and how they kept quality high while growing ScriptDrop 300% during COVID. The part of the conversation I enjoyed the most was talking through Amanda's transition to CEO. In particular, how to be your authentic self as a CEO. A lot of people struggle with this, myself included. And I thought that she gave excellent advice for new CEOs and anyone that wants to be a CEO one day. So with that, I'm gonna stop talking, and let's get to the show. Amanda, welcome to the show.

Amanda Epp  02:23

Thank you for having me.

Callan Harrington  02:24

We're in a new studio. So just so our listeners know, yesterday night, probably like ten o'clock at night, I'm like, hey, are you cool with a change of plans on studio? And you got back right away. Which was amazing.

Amanda Epp  02:38

I'm surprised I saw it. It was perfect timing. So it all worked out.

Callan Harrington  02:42

I thought there was going to be no way, but you did. We're here. Super excited to have you on the show. And the first place that I'd love to start out is, what do the words Go Get the World mean to you?

Amanda Epp  02:56

They mean so much to me. And it's because I was making a very critical decision. I actually forget what decision it was when I was in college, and my mom wrote me a letter, and it just said, "Go get the world. And I'm here if you need me." And that- oh, wow, I'll cry. That just meant so much to me. Because it was like, I had the power to make the choice, whatever it was, whatever it may be, but I had somebody supporting me along the way. And it was just at the right time that I needed to hear that and it stuck with me throughout so many years of like watching other people, or myself, having to make some critical decisions and thinking, do they know that I care about this? Do they know that I'm supporting them and that whatever decision they make, they'll be okay. So just follow your heart, follow your dreams and you know, go get the world, and you do have a support system, whether it's your family or friends or community and one that I created called Go Get the World.

Callan Harrington  04:02

Was it specifically kind of that, okay, like I have now the confidence to do this, because it's almost kind of the worst case scenario has been removed? Is that what it is? Or what is it to you specifically?

Amanda Epp  04:15

Yeah, I think it definitely was the confidence, especially as a woman in leadership, I am constantly second guessing myself, or not sure if that's the right move, or... and so somebody's telling me like, the world is your oyster, don't worry, and I'll catch you if you fall, was just what I needed to hear.

Callan Harrington  04:36

What changed with you in particular after that moment?

Amanda Epp  04:40

I think I remember just taking chances then that I normally didn't. I made the decision to go into healthcare administration then at Ohio University, which was probably one of the best decisions that I made, because that led me to actually take a risk and apply to a random job on Craigslist called CoverMyMeds.

Callan Harrington  05:02

Wait, hold on a minute here. So for our listeners that don't know, CoverMyMeds was probably the- one of the early success stories in the startup community within Columbus, sold for $1.1 billion to McKesson. What I'm loving is that you applied through Craigslist for this job. Okay. Tell us about that.

Amanda Epp  05:24

Yes. And so I applied through Craigslist. And actually we've adopted in our kind of job interviews was, from early on, CoverMyMeds to, is I got a response from Craigslist, from the VP of operations at CoverMyMeds. And she asked me a bunch of questions. And so that was kind of unusual back then too, to have like, email communication. I had to do something before I actually got an interview. And I was like, oh, this is, this is interesting. This is very thoughtful, insightful, and I'll respond. And so I remember, you know, actually responding to her email. And what I learned later, is a lot of people actually fall off after that point, that they wouldn't take the time even to respond. And back then again, nobody knew who CoverMyMeds was, I think it was a cold call position that I actually applied for. So cold call on Craigslist. And I got an interview. I went in. I went downtown to the office on Chestnut Street, and I remember my parents being like, "wait, what, what are you doing? Where are you interviewing?" Like, what is this place? Like a little worried for me. And it was just the most incredible interview, most incredible people, and that was on a Friday, and I started on a Monday.

Callan Harrington  06:41

It sounds almost the you were excited by getting this email with these tasks to do. Am I hearing that correctly?

Amanda Epp  06:48

Yeah, it was... Like, almost from the starting point. It was like we care to get to know you. It's not your email was going into an oblivion which, you know, back then I remember, Monster and all of those other companies that I was applying on. This one was like a response, like, "hey, tell me about yourself." And they were judging, you know, your written communication. And then if they liked you, you got to go into the office or have a phone interview. And that's when they were really starting to understand your communication style and skills. But I just felt like that was a nice nod of you know, I hear you, I see you. And I want to know more. And that was cool. Do you still do any of that today within kind of the hiring processes at either ScriptDrop? Or was that something that became standard at CoverMyMeds throughout that time? It was something that became standard for many, many years at CoverMyMeds, and something that we did implement at ScriptDrop early on too. We don't do it right now. But it's something that I think more companies started to adopt it too.

Callan Harrington  07:52

 Yeah.

Amanda Epp  07:53

So it wasn't as special, but I really appreciated it. That's what made me even more excited for this interview in a really random spot. I mean, automating prior authorizations, which I had no idea what that was.

Callan Harrington  08:07

Still don't. Can you help me understand?

Amanda Epp  08:10

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I really understood completely, probably for months and months, even working at CoverMyMeds, but- So, imagine your doctor writes a prescription. And it might be really expensive, or it could be maybe a little bit more risky for you to take. That's when your doctor needs to send a basically a permission slip or a written form to the insurance company and to say, "This is why Callan needs this drug." You know, he's tried this, he's tried that or, and that's why, you know, this expense is needed. This is the drug that he needs to be on. And so it was a process just to like double check that that was the appropriate therapy for you. Once the health plan signed off on it, you could go on your therapy. And that was a completely paper archaic process, until CoverMyMeds  revolutionized that space.

Callan Harrington  09:02

I had no idea, and I've worked in the insurance area for over ten years. I had absolutely no idea. That makes so much sense. Did you want to be in a startup?

Amanda Epp  09:15

I don't know. I don't think I knew what a startup was. Or that actually, that company was a startup. My paycheck came from the consulting company they owned for about a year. So. So, yeah, I don't think so. But I read a book recently talking about how to really kind of like, find yourself you need to remember who you were as a child and what you gravitated towards. And I actually created tons of businesses as a child, like I love lemonade stands and creating like, the neighborhood carnival, and my brother would be at the ticket stand, and I'd go be creating the next business. So, I loved that. So, it was sort of natural when I realized like, oh, this is this is new, like we're doing something really cool here that actually people want to use and look at. And I remember, you know, my boss always asking me like more detailed questions. Like, how was that call? What did they say? What questions did you ask? Can you ask these questions for me? And I was like, oh, I'm, I'm like the researcher now. And it was just a really exciting time because I, as just an employee on the phones was learning along with the founders of the company, like, is this product going to work?

Callan Harrington  10:29

So you, yeah, you're zero to one stage. And for any of our listeners who don't know zero to one, typically that's zero to one million in ARR? What were the biggest challenges of that stage for you?

Amanda Epp  10:41

Well, I think it was not understanding healthcare, or still like trying to wrap my head around the prior authorization process too. You know, yes, my degree was in healthcare administration. Out of like the call center back then I was probably the only one with a degree that applied. So I think that was probably the biggest challenge. And what I learned and what I try to instill in our account management team at ScriptDrop today is, you know, the best way to learn is from your customers, like, people want to talk about themselves. So ask them a question, tell, ask them how they do their job, what would make their lives easier. And so, I loved that part about it. And it was just a really exciting time to continue to build and then take that and apply it and move on to the next problem we were trying to solve.

Callan Harrington  11:28

I think that's such excellent advice. What I've always seen with customer interviews is, you know, one department will do that really well. But it stays and lives with that department. And when you share that externally, and you've got to wait to iterate those, I found exactly what you said, if you want to know what the problems are, ask your customers, if you want to know where they're getting information for from marketing, ask your customers, if you want to know what challenges and pain points are going on. Ask the customer. So I think that's, that's, that's great advice. How has that impacted what you've done since in your career?

Amanda Epp  12:00

Oh, my goodness, in so many ways. And actually, I just had a conversation about this the other day, one of the cool things that my boss at CoverMyMeds  would do too, is if she wanted to know something, she'd give the whole team like, this is your question of the week. And we all would gather it and then share it in standup. So, that's one thing that I just actually applied and passed on to our account management team this week too, was, alright guys, this is what we want to know. We need to start just feeding it into the conversations. Anytime you're on the phone, no matter who it is, whether it's a pharmacy, or a health system. Go ahead and just ask. So, it's just really interesting things that I learned along my way at CoverMyMeds, building and growing and just actually learning from such incredible leaders there, that I have taken and applied at ScriptDrop, because it's it's a very similar concept. It's just in a different spot. It's in prescription delivery instead of prior authorization.

Callan Harrington  12:59

Can you remember what some of those times were at a CoverMyMeds, where it was this is where some of the turning point moments, where it's like, oh, this is really something, this is really going to work? Can you remember any of those times?

Amanda Epp  13:13

I remember probably too many. One of the earliest was I was invited to go to a conference. And I mean, I didn't stop moving, like I was on my feet, and I think they just brought me to man the booth, and all the other executives were running around, and doing different things, and still involved in other companies. And I mean, I didn't stop. Everybody wanted to, like get a test and demo and see the product. And I was like, wow, this is incredible. We were the busiest booth there.  And then I remember we closed a really, really large retail chain, it was the biggest one. And I was responsible for sending out the announcements for our team at that time. And I remember sending out every single week that we were closing like multiple deals, and that was really unheard of. Well, we were on the pharmaceutical manufacturer team, so we were focused on that. So it was crazy, these like, huge deals we were closing them every single week. And I really think that was a turning point was getting the largest pharmacy customer. So in healthcare, it definitely is kind of like a flywheel, and like building the network, and then moving into other areas. And that's what I really saw the big shift into the other areas and health care that it was mind blowing.

Callan Harrington  13:46

Yeah.  Is there anything that you can pinpoint on that where it was: here's what we started doing, and this really started to have a big impact?

Amanda Epp  14:43

I think it came down to still it was the network effect. So, people care, especially in health care, once you get to this critical mass, and that that's the hardest thing to do. And I always tell the team that actually at ScriptDrop is you know,  we've done the hard part guys. We built out a network. Do you know how hard that is to do in healthcare? We have 11,000 pharmacies that we work with. And we can get any patient on therapy the same day, across the country. That is a massive undertaking and a huge foundation. Now you can build on top of it. And do what I say is, are the fun things. So the fun things are actually building new products on top of that network, connecting into the ecosystem, doing integrations, communicating, we touch the patient, communicating to the patient, letting them know that, hey, you can get five bucks off grocery if you get your flu shot. So, just really interesting ways then, because you have this massive network. And so, I think that was it is when we hit- I want to say it was seven million prior authorizations. I remember that day at CoverMyMeds  was like, a big milestone for us. And it was weird that it was seven and not ten. But it was seven, and we were really excited about that one. And then actually December of 2022, ScriptDrop hit our ten millionth delivery. And now we're about to hit twelve. So, it's I really think in health care, having that critical mass is when you start to see other things move faster, and people get involved much faster.

Callan Harrington  16:19

So now that you've done this twice, how do you build that network? So, it would kind of almost, if you could break down into stages of initial stage, here's how we break in. Here's how we kind of get the next tranche, the next tranche, whatever that may be. What does that look like? How do you do that?

Amanda Epp  16:35

Oh, so you really do- And this really applies to healthcare, and maybe it could apply elsewhere. I've only ever been in health care, I always say, you know, my next company, I will not be in health care, because I feel like there's like a huge weight that you carry on your shoulders.

Callan Harrington  16:51

Oh, I've said this about insurance for the past ten years.

Amanda Epp  16:54

But there's so many problems to solve. So I don't think I'll ever leave. But in healthcare, it's really important to think about- yes, you have to think about the patient, but it's really the health care professionals. They're the ones that the patient listens to, they're the ones that you need to be in workflow and thinking about, because they're not going to go outside of their workflow. They are busy, they care about their patient, they want to give them care. So if they care about your product, they will use you. But it has to be in workflow. So really, it's making sure that you figure out how to integrate, who to integrate with, who's going to be that first partner, that's going to be super collaborative too, that you can learn from. So we integrate into pharmacy management systems. That's where we started. That's actually where CoverMyMeds  started too as those integrations, and that is then where you can learn, okay, did this work? What are the stats? You know, what are the results? What does this look like? Take that to other systems. But that's really how you can scale that much, much faster, is to find kind of that niche, integration to start with.

Callan Harrington  18:03

That makes a ton of sense, and what I'm hearing you say is, sounds like the model is still find the early adopters. Who are these people that see that they can get a significant gain? But in particular, sounds like in this world, even if they're an early adopter, even if they want to do that, they're not stepping out of their workflow. And for you to get real traction to get real network effect. We have to go in workflow, we have to find the early adopters that are on these systems, whatever systems those may be, integrate there, put in the workflow, and then start to build the flywheel. Is that right?  Yep, exactly.  How do you build the flywheel?

Amanda Epp  18:45

Oh, my goodness. I should have known. Well, the way that we did it at ScriptDrop, actually, is to think about aligning incentives across the board. And I'm really happy that we thought about it this way, because I've never really truly, I think, seen a product in healthcare that has really crystally clear aligned the incentives the way that we have. And so, what I mean by that is a patient cares about getting on therapy, great. They don't, they might not care which way they they get on therapy, but they want to make sure that they can get their medication. They probably care about convenience. That's where we come in, where it's the pharmacy, they care about making sure that they don't lose that revenue, they don't lose that patient, they don't lose that revenue, and then they don't have to spend the time returning that drug back to stock. That's additional administrative burden that's put on the already busy pharmacist. Then you have the doctor, they're prescribing this medication, they care that the patient gets on therapy, most of the time, they never know I think it's like something crazy like 1% of the time does  the physician actually know if you the patient got on the therapy that they prescribed.

Callan Harrington  19:57

 Huh.

Amanda Epp  19:58

So you know, they care about that patient, but then in a greater whole, it's the health system. They are incentivized to make sure that you aren't readmitted back into the hospital. Well, if you don't get your medication, you could be. So that puts them at risk. And then you have your health plans that actually care about making sure, same thing, that you don't get readmitted. They're improving their star ratings for certain disease states. And pharmaceutical manufacturers, of course, if they sink all that money into commercials, and sales reps, and, you know, distributing the drug, but at that final mile, that patient needs to get the therapy or they have an entire sunk cost. So, we really align everything very nicely to help really all parties in the ecosystem share in patient adherence and be responsible for patient adherence. So that's how ScriptDrop is. We really looked at aligning the incentives for all of the different parties to create that flywheel.

Callan Harrington  20:53

Is it also removing the friction from the process?

Amanda Epp  20:56

Oh, absolutely. And that's where removing the friction from the healthcare professionals too, and then even being, I like to say, we're in workflow with the patient then, too. When it's, you know, referred to you by a physician, or, you know, it's just an easy click of the button, or you can go to your patient app within any of your grocery retailers. That's us who's making your script delivery for you. So yeah, in workflow frictionless is definitely critical, in healthcare, especially,

Callan Harrington  21:31

You are part of this, you built the initial network, the flywheel. CoverMyMeds ends up getting acquired by McKesson. And you go right back into the earliest stages. So what was it? What was it about that, that you're like, I got to do this again?

Amanda Epp  21:51

I got the bug. I was like, oh, my goodness, this startup life, I think, is for me. Even though I didn't know I was applying to a startup. But- (laughs)

Callan Harrington  21:59

Did you find yourself through Craigslist as well? (laughs)

Amanda Epp  22:02

No. (laughs) But I, you know, I had the bug to do it all over again. I had just worked on a new product that CoverMyMeds spun up too, so I was already kind of still living in that incubator startup world within CoverMyMeds, that I was like, well, why not try it again? And I have all this experience now behind me. I got to see something grow from nothing to, I mean, over a billion dollar exit. So, why not try it and see if I can do it again?

Callan Harrington  22:35

So, you get into the beginning? What was the first rude awakening?

Amanda Epp  22:45

That that I was like, oh, my God, this is-

Callan Harrington  22:48

Yeah, we're back.

Amanda Epp  22:48

We're the beginning again? (laughs)

Callan Harrington  22:50

Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right.

Amanda Epp  22:52

There are probably definitely too many. But I think it was- actually no, I remember, it was a rude awakening, but I was- It was a good reminder of this is why I'm here. I was on the phone with my former colleague, at CoverMyMeds  then. And he was stuck, because he couldn't make a decision. Somebody else had to make the decision. And I was like, smiling, walking into the ScriptDrop office, about to have like, a terrible meeting about something. And he's like, "you're smiling, like, I know that you're going through a lot, but I can hear you smiling." I'm like, the differencem is I'm in control, like, I'm going to actually be able to make a decision and figure out the next step instead of feeling stuck. And that's when I was like, although these are like really hard decisions. I mean, that's what happens in a startup journey, and an entrepreneur's journey is like, you're forced to make tough decisions every single day. But it's, you get to do that with integrity and thoughtfulness and just make sure that you're you're making the best decision for the company every single moment. And, you know, I was able to do that. And that just was like, just refreshing.

Callan Harrington  24:16

Yeah, so if I'm hearing you it's, yeah, startups, extremely stressful, early stage startups multiply that by like ten. But it's countered with, if I can make this decision that we're going toward, and I've got control of that, versus somebody else above me is making that that decision, and once it gets to a certain size, no one person is making that decision, the markets making that decision, essentially, is that right?

Amanda Epp  24:45

Yes.

Callan Harrington  24:46

Yeah, I found the same. I don't, you know, there's so many days with being an entrepreneur, like there's other things I could do. (laughs)

Amanda Epp  24:53

(laughs)

Callan Harrington  24:55

But at the end of the day, I think about going- if I ever think about going back, which is rarely any more But in the beginning, it was, well, I don't know that I want to put all this energy towards somebody else's business. It's not that I don't like love the business and I'm attached to the idea and everything else. But there's just something about that, that it's worth the stress of eh, this could fall tomorrow.

Amanda Epp  25:18

But it's something that I care about and that I'm passionate about. So goes back to Lacey's, how she was talking about, you have to do something that you really love. And that's also why I think that I'll always stay in healthcare, again, is yes, it's a huge stress, because you're talking about patients. And even something like what we're doing is we're delivering medications, this could be a life saving drug that is needed to get in that patient's hands. And so it is terrifying, but also extremely rewarding. So, yeah, you go through the ups and the downs and the round and rounds in one day, seven days a week.

Callan Harrington  26:00

So, where's that come from? That intense caring? That willing to, really willing to go against really- odds that are stacked against you, in order to try to do that, where's that come from?

Amanda Epp  26:12

It has to come from my mom. And my mom was the one that told me go get the world. And she was a third grade teacher, super caring, super empathetic, but is always being supportive. But also, you know, giving me the little nudges, the right, the right amount. I mean, I get quotes, I get, she'll take pictures of the books she's reading and like the paragraphs, and I get those daily from her. And it's just, it's always a little reminder to, to keep going. So my stubbornness, I think comes from my dad. And then from her, it's that just the empathy of like, I just want to help. And I remember in my interview, actually at CoverMyMeds, I interviewed with Matt Scanlon, and he's like, "what do you want to be doing in five years?" And I was like, this is the question that I should have prepared for. I'm thinking about it. And I'm like, I just, I have to be helping people. That's, that's what I have to do. And so here I am, how many years later like staying in healthcare, because there's, there's so much work to be done. And you can really make a big impact on people. And especially in this type of setting too, like healthcare technology, you can really reach so many people at once, too. So I think there's like a power in being the connector, being able to actually impact over eleven million patients, essentially, is what we've done since the beginning of ScriptDrop. And you know, that that's what keeps me going. And somebody asked me the other day, like, have you ever thought about just quitting? And I don't know if I've ever seriously considered it because there's just so much to be done and that the patient care and the people and the team, like, always keep me going.

Callan Harrington  28:05

You have to have that drive to do that job. So, let's go there. So, you're CEO. You worked your way up within CoverMyMeds, you did the same thing within ScriptDrop, and you're at the top spot. What changed taking over the top spot?

Amanda Epp  28:23

So many things just actually though being at ScriptDrop, I think, changed. And I think what it gave me was perspective. You know, even at CoverMyMeds , it was fabulous, but there were still you know, I mean, at the end there, after we had PE money and we're working on the acquisition, there are a lot of big shifts and changes and you're like, what are we doing here? And now taking a step back and seeing it from the seat that I'm in, I'm like, oh, my God, I get it now. Like I get it. And I like have even more empathy than I already did for the leaders at CoverMyMeds and what they were able to accomplish and do. So, I think my perspective changed. But then also, I think one of the biggest things that I've been focusing on, really this last year, is taken from a page in the CoverMyMeds book, is you have to get back to the people. The people are what drive the business, they create the culture, they are the ones that, you know, are making the magic happen. And so we've really started to invest more in culture and collaboration. And that was just really hard in the middle of the pandemic. I was taking over as CEO. We were completely virtual. We were- I mean, we tripled, I think, our volume like what felt like overnight, so it was just so much happening at once. That it wasn't until kind of end of 2022, 2023, I was really able to say all right, let's start to get back back to what we do, and what I know we can do best, is collaborating, solving problems together, cross team communication, getting in-person a little bit more. I hired a Chief People Officer, Chase McCants. He was at Beam, and Olive, and yeah, and CoverMyMeds. And so that, I think, has been what I realized, and what has changed, at least in this past year, is these folks have been really ride or die the last three years and that I need to trust them to continue to do what's best for the company. And that's how we've been able to to get to where we've been.

Callan Harrington  30:38

You touched on a point there a little bit where you grew over 300% during COVID. How did you handle delivering on that?

Amanda Epp  30:47

I have an incredible COO, Laurie Boogaard, who really was kind of lockstep with sales at that point to staff appropriately and make sure that we could handle the volume. She also organized the kind of going fully remote when we needed to, and put all of the processes and technology in place to make sure that the team members were being super efficient and felt really supported. We actually at that time too, because not only were we we were we growing, we had a CEO change, and then we had to go home all at once.

Callan Harrington  31:27

Yeah.

Amanda Epp  31:27

And so we did have weekly all-staffs, just to touch base with everybody, make sure they could see me, and that I wasn't stressed and pulling my hair out and we were going to be okay.

Callan Harrington  31:39

On camera. (laughs)

Amanda Epp  31:43

Yeah, on camera. (laughs) But that's really how we survived. And then 8am every single morning it was the executives huddling on like, okay, what are we facing today? What are the challenges? How are we going to do this? And so it was just constant communication, and yeah, trusting the team to be accountable, and they knew what to do.

Callan Harrington  32:04

Was there anything in particular, whether were changes that were made, or anything that you can think of as like, Okay, we did, we started doing this, and this was something that really benefited that or helped with the growth or whatever that may be.

Amanda Epp  32:17

I think it's when we really started to empower. This kind of goes back to what we were talking about, though, it was to empower the team members to like, ask the right questions, to really get to the root of what the customer thought we were solving. Because, I mean, in the middle of the pandemic, everybody realized, oh, I need delivery, these pharmacies were limiting that until COVID. Because they were like, I want the foot traffic, that's a, you know, a candy bar and a pop if they come into the pharmacy. So, you know, delivery was like a checkbox, but it wasn't embraced. And then all of a sudden, overnight, it was like, oh, my goodness, I need a delivery strategy. And so we knew that changed. But you know, really getting to the root of okay, why were you picking us? You know, what are the other problems that we can solve? Why are we getting phone calls? How can we eliminate, you know, that extra touch from a pharmacy? So that's when we finally had that scale, that it was important to take a step back and still look at the product and say, okay, what are we solving? And then what are the customers needs? And I think as we kept kind of growing and weaving in the changes, the iterations, how we were communicating to the pharmacy, because we were still relatively new, that we were really getting to know our customers still. So, we really pushed the team to get to know your customers better, understand what they need, and what they want, and then communicate really well and effectively when we build something, including showing how we measure those changes. And I think that that really unlocked a lot. We weren't a cost center anymore. You know, delivery can be looked at, as you know, again, a commodity, something that's nice to have, but we were truly a partner for these people and for our customers in the middle of, you know, a time that nobody expected.

Callan Harrington  34:15

Right. And so, what I'm hearing is, is that although, you know, the revenue very much looked like a much larger company, we were a very, still a very new, very early stage company. And one of the things that you were very cognizant of, and seems like because you saw something like this previously at CoverMyMeds, and experience that, was as we're growing, we don't want to just put all these processes and everything in place and lose sight of the customer. We have to be talking to the customer, keeping the customer at the forefront of this whole thing, as we're scaling. Is that- am I hearing that correctly?

Amanda Epp  34:54

Exactly. And understanding, you know, what are they measuring? How can we help? How do how they define if we're successful. So how can we show that we've been super successful and showing kind of comparisons of, you know, either other partners,or other people in the industry, to really kind of unlock that we are more than just- it's kind of, it's what what we did at CoverMyMeds- we're more than just a prior authorization company. At ScriptDrop, we're more than just a delivery company. We are a healthcare-first company. So you know, we're thinking about it with a healthcare lens on at all times. So, you know, what are the ways that we can communicate effectively with these healthcare partners to show the value that we really bring? What were some of those things as a CEO, and now you're moving from one stage of the company to the other, were there areas where that you had to evolve personally, in order to be the right fit for the role with the new company? Yes. Well, I think, so I thought, actually, as soon as I became- not as soon as I became, but probably a little bit into being a CEO, I'm like, oh, my goodness, there's so much that I don't know. And I thought one of the things that I really wanted to focus on was my executive presence, like how, like, how should I be more of a CEO, and executive and how do I command the room and all of these things that you're told? And I actually hired a coach and, you know, was working on my communication style, and all of these things. And I realized, like, that's not who I am or who I wanted to be, I just wanted to be myself. And I feel like, kind of over the years since then, being my authentic self in leadership and showing that, you know, hey, guys know, I have to get home for dinner, too. You know, I need to make sure I check out early for dance class. So, it was or, you know, doing this, like just thinking on the fly with somebody and not having every exact word precise. That was me. So, showing up more as me and not who I always thought a CEO was, and I think that was a big shift for me. But then also, to have the confidence you know, after the first year, two, I still don't know if I have all the confidence that I need to be doing what I'm doing. But after, you know, so many years now, I have a little bit more where I have that experience that have that knowledge now. I'm more confident my decision making, or to other people that are challenging my decision, I have kind of a better understanding and just a little bit more confidence in myself to know and stand firm in some of the decisions. So, more to kind of trust in your own decision making?  My own decision making, yes.

Callan Harrington  37:59

Yeah, that makes sense. And I think that's probably one of the biggest realities, is that, you know, we've had so many successful people on the show, and we all know so many successful people. And the picture is that all these people got it all figured out. Nobody does. Nobody has it all figured out. So, I love that. I love your story and hearing that, kind of how you said that, and everything else. The last question I have to kind of wrap this up is, if you could have a conversation with your younger self, what would that conversation be? What advice would you give them?

Amanda Epp  38:35

Go get the world. I really think that that's almost what I needed to hear throughout my entire life. And I'm so thankful that I heard it in college, at least, and not later. But, I mean, you can do anything that you set your mind to. I've thought about my career journey. And I think it's been unintentionally intentional. You know, follow your heart, follow your gut, follow whatever is leading you to show up and do the best job you can, and then be open to the possibilities. And I never thought I would be a CEO. I didn't want to be a CEO. But I was open, I had learned, I've worked really hard, and I absorbed and was curious, and now here I am. So, just be aware of the possibility, and then trust your gut, and go get the world.

Callan Harrington  39:29

I think that's excellent. And it's very similar to something that I saw that you had mentioned before where you said when you stopped looking for the next thing in your career, that thing found you, and trusting your intuition and your gut and how you've made a career of that, I think is incredible. And you're at the top spot at a highly successful company. So, Amanda, this has been amazing. Thanks for coming on the show.

Amanda Epp  39:55

Thank you for having me. This was great.

Callan Harrington  40:02

I hope you enjoyed Amanda and I's conversation. I loved hearing how she came into her own as a CEO. If you want to learn more about Amanda, you could find her on LinkedIn in the show notes. Also, if you liked this episode, you could find me on LinkedIn to let me know. And if you really want to support the show, a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify is very much appreciated. Thanks for listening, everybody, and I'll see you next week.