Derrek Seif - Chief Strategy & Product Officer at VPL: Winning Through Honesty, Changing Your Mindset with Equity, Using Consulting to Find Your Next Job

Derrek Seif  00:00

That whole product suite that I was responsible for was a fifty million dollar business. And I had P&L responsibility for it. I felt really, really good. But guess what nobody cares about in a billion dollar business, the fifty million dollar business.

Callan Harrington  00:19

You're listening to That Worked, a show that breaks down the careers of top founders and executives and pulls out those key items that led to their success. I'm your host, Callan Harrington, founder of Flashgrowth, and I couldn't be more excited that you're here. Welcome back to another episode of That Worked. This week, I'm joined by Derrek Seif, and I'm excited to have him on the show. Derrek is the chief strategy and product officer at VPL. VPL delivers visibility and resiliency to clinical supply chains. VPL works with more than 700 hospitals, 6000 suppliers, and has a 97% customer retention rate. Derrek has built, launched, and managed B2B software products throughout the product lifecycle in several industries. He is doing the same for healthcare at VPL, leading the product and engineering teams to build the future of the healthcare and pharmaceutical supply chain. We dove into some of my favorite topics. We talked about Derrek's experience of consulting at a company before joining it, which I'm a huge fan of. We spent some time talking about how Derrek's mindset changed when he owned equity in the business that he was working for. This is a big one for anyone looking to join an early stage company. But I have to say my favorite part was hearing the story of Derrek risking his job to deliver tough news. This is never easy, but it's almost always the right thing to do. I loved hearing about the impact this ended up having on his career. So with that, let's jump into the show. Today's guest, we have Derrek Seif. Derrek is the chief strategy and product officer at VPL. Derrek, welcome to the show.

Derrek Seif  02:19

Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.

Callan Harrington  02:21

How did you get started with VPL?

Derrek Seif  02:24

I got started with VPL through a recruiter and investor here in town that knew some of my experiences in the past, and VPL had just gone through a Series A round of investment. And they were looking to change the company from a tech enabled service to a software company. And they didn't have the product management discipline. So they were looking for a product leader to come in and define what product management means at VPL. And to build a team around it. And to change the mindset of the company and the business model from a tech enabled service to a software-as-a-service company and offering.

Callan Harrington  03:11

That's really interesting. I actually did not realize that. So for our listeners, you know, a lot of companies start out as a service business. When you think of a service business, you know, think of an advertising agency or somebody that's really doing a lot of the heavy lifting on behalf of a company or they're paying you to provide that service. A tech enabled service is when you start to productize it a bit, then you add technology in it to make that easier to do. You may automate a number of manual tasks and things like that, that make your service better than potentially some of the service providers that are out there. I mean, that would be the goal of that. So when you are here, you are taking this from a service business, that you're using technology, of course, to enhance it, but from a service business to a true tech SaaS type of company. Is that correct?

Derrek Seif  03:57

That's correct. And the main difference is that prior to me starting, the users of the software were internal here to VPL. That main difference is that now the users of our software are the individuals at the health system. And so they're buying our software and using it so any individual might be a buyer, somebody in supply chain at at the health system, as well as a pharmacist are now- or pharmacy technicians- are now using our software to deliver- to manage the shipping costs inbound into the healthcare system, as well as making sure that they're able to deliver prescriptions to patients in need.

Callan Harrington  04:41

So, you're joining a Series A. So typically Series A companies have what's called product market fit. And product market fit is, for our listeners that may be unfamiliar with that, that's essentially the market says that yes, we have a need for this product. So much so that you're able to get repeat of sales into that. But if you're joining on that point where they had just making this switch from we're using this product internally for our service, to now we're using it externally. That's pretty much square one from a technology perspective, am I understanding that correctly?

Derrek Seif  05:13

There's a little bit of that, yes. We were reacting not only to the changing in the market dynamics, but in a competitive market environment, we were also trying to change the game. So by changing the game, we then become different than the competitors out there. And so we're adapting to the market conditions and, and winning against our competitors.

Callan Harrington  05:35

How were you able to do that? What were some of the kind of the things that you guys did internally to take this market feedback, and then turn that into kind of actionable features and product sets for the product itself?

Derrek Seif  05:45

Yeah, good question. This sounds elementary, but we went out and talked to our customers. So there's a couple of different things. In fact, when I first got here, I was preparing for my first customer visit. And in doing so I pulled a bunch of data about where this health system in particular was shipping, and how they were shipping. I went and interviewed and sat with the individuals in the supply chain group to understand the different volumes and who was actually doing the shipping. What I uncovered was that the highest volume of shipping in this health system was by one individual. And I had initially gone there trying to understand the usage of a new feature that we built, but found out that this individual within the health system, that was shipping the highest volume, was in the pharmacy. So I went and I interviewed that individual and understood that she really liked our software, but she didn't love it. And because she didn't love it, she outlined all of the additional unique challenges that she encountered in the pharmacy delivering medications to patients. Once we understood that, we said, well, that's an easy build for us, let's make this investment to add these additional value features on top of an already existing platform. That, from there on, launched a new workflow and a new business for us in the specialty pharmacy market.

Callan Harrington  07:27

This comes up quite a bit. And here's the question, would you have gotten that information had you not went there?

Derrek Seif  07:33

Absolutely not.

Callan Harrington  07:34

I have seen it time and again, where when I've made the trip, got on the plane, made the trip. And I understand it's not always possible. Sometimes, especially in a market like this. Obviously COVID prevented all of that. But just getting there in person. And it doesn't need to be- I think one of the misconceptions, I think is like, well, sure if we're going to Facebook. Yeah, you know, I understand that. I've done an SMB countless times where I'm going to a local insurance agency, right, and understanding what we think, what we hear, and then what we actually see are three totally different things. Did you find that same thing?

Derrek Seif  08:10

Absolutely. When looking at the data, you can get some guidance on where you might have some understanding and some conversate- or where you should focus. However, at sitting in the pharmacy, watching them use your product, it opens up all kinds of absolutely interesting ideas and innovations that you can use to develop additional value for the product, as well as opens up insights into how they're using your product and how you can simply use some consulting and some guidance and some training to make them use your product better and more consistent.

Callan Harrington  08:53

100% We did that before we flew around everywhere. We couldn't get it- we were struggling on getting the product usage, and we flew across the country, a couple of us, just for on plane to plane to plane. And from there. They just needed trained, they just needed to see it in person to have us go over there. And I know that sounds crazy. If you're a scaled company that's hard to do. But when you're in those early stages, that was it. Once we did that, then it started kind of taking off on product usage. And then the other thing too, I think, and I think it's important, I mean product does it the best in my opinion, but when you use that for sales and marketing and those customer interviews, you actually see it. I mean, the things that I've thought were amazing on the- and I'm selling on there, and I go in there like I don't even use that. That's not even part of their flow. Did you find like situations like that as well?

Derrek Seif  09:43

Yes, yes, we actually have some subject matter experts on staff. We have a pharmacist that's on staff, and even when we go and visit a customer together, as a pharmacist, she's looking at that and saying, wait a minute, you're not even using these highly valuable features, you're still printing stuff out and storing it in a binder. If you just use this particular feature, and you don't have to do that anymore, you can simplify and optimize your workflow. And we think as we do a, as a debrief after the meeting, we think how could they possibly not even know or understand that this feature is even available. But we have to teach them and show them how to use it. Because the thing that I'm learning, especially about just clinicians, and in the health care, they're focused on the patient, right? They're focused on their workflow, the software is there just to enable to do their job better. They don't care what the software is called, they don't care that it's actually software, they just care that it's actually going to help the patient improve their lives and make it better. So they're not thinking about the details of how can I use this piece of software better. And so we have to consult with them and show them how and when we show them, they say, wow, this is really amazing. I didn't even know I'm not even thinking about it. So part of our our value in the health system, is really to take the logistics decision making component out of the clinician and supply chains thinking and just make it easier for them. So as much as we can take that level of decision making out of those users, better for us and better for them.

Callan Harrington  11:34

Makes complete sense. So you didn't always have this knowledge. So you started your career out at IBM in 1998. I say that specifically, because I believe in 1998 IBM was the number six on Fortune 5000, which is like the- you know, one, it was by far the biggest tech company that was out there. What was that like going in IBM at that time?

Derrek Seif  11:56

So IBM, it was very exciting. So, as a coming out of school, if I could back up just a little bit. I was an undergraduate industrial engineer, and I had three different options coming out of school, graduating, during the interview process. I could work for Black and Decker and make power tools more effective and efficient. As an industrial engineer, I could work for GE Healthcare, and go sell MRI machines in a much more technical sale into the healthcare system. Or I could go work for IBM, and go build software applications for the financial and insurance companies. So I was fortunate enough to have those three options to choose from. In 1998, I thought, wow, this internet thing is- it's going to be a thing. And so, IBM was a large company, I knew I could get a lot of great training from IBM, and I got to travel. So I was traveling all over the country, building software applications for financial and insurance agencies.

Callan Harrington  13:02

Interesting. What did you learn from there, that still impacts kind of your career today?

Derrek Seif  13:07

The main thing that I learned at IBM was that I had to differentiate myself against all of the other consultants that were also on my project. And the way I did that is I started out as a software engineer writing code. And what I quickly found was that I really liked the gathering of the requirements phase at the very beginning of the project. And so what I was able to do was differentiate myself in terms of working with the customers, understanding and building those requirements in the first two or three months of the project, and then instead of the rest of the business analysts, who would just go off to the next project after three months, I could stay on that project and lead the engineering team to translate the requirements into code and then ultimately delivery. So I was able to differentiate myself to be there at the very beginning of the project. And then through that 9-12 months of the project could see it to the end. So that differentiation made me super unique and valuable within IBM as a consultant, because I could be a full stack, project consultant.

Callan Harrington  14:34

Which it's interesting, because if that's a product role, right? Like what you just described is a essentially a product manager, which I thought- so when you left IBM, you became a product manager, correct?

Derrek Seif  14:45

Yes, actually. So, you're right, it wasn't called a product manager. And the product management discipline was just sort of evolving at that time. I think what I also learned is besides being on the road for 100% of the time is exhausting and tiring, I also learned that I didn't want to necessarily write code for a living in the long term. I really loved the requirements and understanding the business aspect of it. But being an engineer as an undergrad, I always knew that there was an element of finance and money that was super important, right? Especially on projects with IBM, you had to fit within the budget, and you could justify different things based off of the financial models that were put in place. And so I always felt that that was a critical time where I really had to say, how do I increase my financial knowledge? And so that was the critical moment where I decided to go to business school.

Callan Harrington  15:50

Gotcha. So, your main driver for going to business school was, you want to understand the business side of the business better?

Derrek Seif  15:57

That's right.

Callan Harrington  15:58

It is something that I think is huge. I say this in the sales side quite a bit. Because if you don't understand the metrics of their business, what really matters, right? A SaaS company may be ARR growth, and gross revenue retention and things like that. But a services based business might be purely gross margins, and top line revenue, obviously, or revenue per headcount, or whatever that may be. So what did you get what you were hoping to from business school?

Derrek Seif  16:25

I absolutely did. I really learned how to make a case or support a decision based off of the financial numbers. And I really learned that if I apply the numbers, to my case for either making a product, adding a feature, launching a new product, that I could get that done and through to the next level. I think that was an important piece. So I could then take my requirements and engineering experience, add the finance experience, bundle it all together, and grow different products.

Callan Harrington  17:05

That's really interesting. So, let me repeat that back to make sure that I got you on that. So essentially, you had this engineering background, so you understood how these things were built. You understand what you were creating. You started to get into more of what is now kind of product management. But at that time, I mean, that was super early. Product management wasn't really anything at that time. So, you were understanding kind of the requirements, here's what we need, here's what we're seeing, here's the feedback to research and everything else and what we need to build. Engineers, now, here's what we need built. And then you realize that it just you couldn't get things through fast enough. And the thing that was going to unlock that was to understand, okay, if we do this, we get this from a financial perspective. CEO, CFO, can you sign off on this investment? As you're building that business case? Is that right?

Derrek Seif  17:55

That is exactly right. And building relationships with the CFO, or the financial element of any software company is absolutely critical in a product role. To me, that was the missing piece, that the education and business school really tied together for me, and I think has been a thread throughout the rest of my career.

Callan Harrington  18:16

Makes sense. I mean, I could tell you for me, that was the weakness earlier on in my career. When I first got to an executive role, and I wasn't that strong at that. Honestly, it was more can I be the one that just gets everybody excited enough to do this, which is a horrible way to do it. It wasn't until I could actually back that up with data that it mattered. And it was not a strength at that time. So, that's incredible foresight to go, like- I have not heard that yet. For we've got a number of people on the show that you know, went to business school, and a lot of it was this is for the network, this is what I needed to kind of check the box to get into the C suite. But that's a very practical reason for going. I think that's excellent. So, when you got out of business school, where did you go?

Derrek Seif  18:54

So, when I got out of business school, I really wanted to strengthen on the product management role. So again, it was early, and I knew this thing was evolving. I really wanted to connect my technology experience, my now new financial knowledge. And so I got an opportunity with a company called Quest Software. And what I loved about this opportunity is that they were really early adopters of pragmatic marketing methodology, which is now Pragmatic Institute. And it was really a framework for product management, product marketing, and I knew that I could become a full product manager. The opportunity was to have P&L responsibility for a product. I was able and all of the training and support around product management to presumably make me successful working with a on a product management team. So I loved all the aspects about it. What I also loved is it was slightly smaller than IBM, which is not hard to do. And at the time there I- when I walked in the door at Quest Software, they were doing about 600 million in sales as a public company. So, I thought this is a great opportunity to really focus on product management and see what I can do.

Callan Harrington  20:15

What were some of those key learnings in that role?

Derrek Seif  20:18

So, the story there is I was hired to finish the development of a brand new product. And I was responsible for launching that product into the market. And so I come on board, I finish it up, I launch the product, and the product is now in the market. And once it's in the market, the question is, how many customers do we need to really make this new product successful? And we said, we have to get twenty paying customers, and then we'll make a decision as to where do we go next and how much more do we invest. So, my job was to go and talk to all the customers, enable sales, launch this product into the market. And over a period of six months or so I ended up coming back in to the business, the managing director at the time, and making a recommendation that we should no longer invest in the product, and roll it up as a feature into a larger platform. At that point, I thought my career was over.

Callan Harrington  21:32

I was just gonna say what- how did that go?

Derrek Seif  21:35

I was extremely nervous. I remember clearly to this day, as a turning point in my career, because I made that recommendation, and had this whole presentation, and had all the supporting data, and the customers were just not willing to pay for it. And I remember hanging up the phone, and just thinking, that's it, I'm done. And I'm cool. I'm sure I'll figure it out. So two hours later, I get a phone call from the managing director. And he says, "Derrek, that is the most mature decision that I've ever seen out of any one of our product leaders here. And what I'd like to do is, I'd like to give you responsibility for a whole suite of products. And to take this to the next level. And with the P&L responsibility."

Callan Harrington  22:30

When you were putting this together, what was that moment where you're like, I gotta do this? Because you could have easily said, you know, you could have like, this is my product, I'm just gonna keep going for this, no matter what. What was it that was kind of the trigger of like, I can't do this, like this is the better move for the company?

Derrek Seif  22:46

The trigger, I was visiting a customer in Connecticut. And I remember going to the customer, and spending a half a day with them. And they were telling me about how the value was not there to pay for the product. And I remember just going home that night, or back to the hotel that night, and sitting there and saying, this customer, who I thought really highly of, was super interested in just from a relationship and a brand standpoint, they didn't want to buy it. And I felt that because of that, I could not go back and make the case financially for the twenty customers that we were supposed to get and the target that was laid out in front of me.

Callan Harrington  23:35

So, for you it was I don't have a choice, like I have to build, I have to build what the actual numbers are saying, and I can't build a financial case as to why this is going to work. You know, it also makes me kind of think, and if this is a stretch, shoot it right down, but one of the things with numbers is you probably could have stretched that out and said like, yeah, we could probably make this work in a year or two, but you didn't. I have to assume this comes back to more of kind of the your core values, because you had to like- you're gonna like potentially, in your mind, you thought you're going to be fired as a result of this, right? So there had to have been some level of this is what I believe in, this is what I'm doing. I could probably- because this reality is like, you  learn it in startups because you are always or- when you don't have any idea, you're just making assumptions and guesses as to what you think that it can do. And you probably could have done that, I think, but you didn't do it. Why is that?

Derrek Seif  23:45

And this goes back to the learnings I had on in business school, where I just couldn't put the financial case together to justify further investment in this product. Because I couldn't prove that we could get the value, that customers would pay for it. So, as I'm thinking about this, maybe tying back that financial education, and back to the technology added a- was now a strength that I could use to give me at least some of the confidence to make the presentation that it's just financially not going to work. Which to your point earlier might be sort of the decision between hey, if I was just really excited about the product, and I didn't care about the financial element, I might just focus on go, go, go. And let's just by any means let's try to make this successful, whether customers are going to pay for this or not. But adding that financial element to it sobers that up a little bit, because you have to go back to the business and make that financial case. And I just knew I couldn't. I don't know. I suppose it comes down to core values, as you said, and maybe it's just the first thing that comes to mind when you said that was I need to do the right thing for the business. I know, I had this as a little a little bit of an element, but I had a stake in the business. I had an interest in the business. And so at that moment in time, I think I really was less selfish about my career growth and where I was going, and more focused on this is just not a good decision for the business.

Callan Harrington  26:03

I think you bring up a great point. Right? When you think of- when you say stake, are you referring to you had ownership equity stake within the business?

Derrek Seif  26:10

Well, it was a public company, but I had- yeah, so options in that case.

Callan Harrington  26:13

Right. So you cared though. You cared about-

Derrek Seif  26:15

I cared enough. Yes.

Callan Harrington  26:16

Which is really interesting. It's one of the things that I think that I've learned personally, as well, where, who cares if you get your win? It only, like, what matters is that the company wins at the end of the day. Because if you're sitting there and that company exits, it doesn't matter what your title is, right? What you could unlock for yourself, personally, your family and everything else, that's going to be worth ten times more than what that was in that short term. So, I love that story. I appreciate you sharing that.

Derrek Seif  26:47

Yeah, interesting. I think the whether it's options, stock options, or equity ownership, it changes your mindset as to how you behave. And as I'm reflecting on this now, at Quest Software, even though it was a public company, I think that really changed my mindset. And I'll tell you why, in my next...

Callan Harrington  27:07

Let's go there now. What was next?

Derrek Seif  27:09

So, the things that I loved about Quest Software, I talked about getting that  additional responsibility with a product suite. And that whole product suite that I was responsible for was a fifty million dollar business. And I had P&L responsibility for it. I felt really, really good. But guess what nobody cares about in a billion dollar business, the fifty million dollar business. So, not that they don't care. But it's less of a focus in importance. So through that time, I really got an opportunity to learn, I figured out that I could make a mistake, make a recommendation that's good for the business, and also under this larger umbrella get, put into something else. And so I think it was that moment where I said, okay, this is great. I've had a couple failures and successes here at Quest Software. But now I'm ready to add that additional element of risk. And let's go to a smaller organization, and see if I can do it myself without that safety net or umbrella.

Callan Harrington  28:21

Real quick, why was that important to you? Why was going to a smaller company, taking more of a risk, why was that important to you?

Derrek Seif  28:27

It was important to me, because I felt like through my experience at Quest Software, that and through my education, and through my experience at IBM, that I had this confidence that I could really do this. And what I really found was, although it was great to have some upside at a public company, I felt that I really wanted to have ownership in like true ownership in a business and bet on myself. So, because I had that confidence, I thought, let's bet on myself. At that time in my career, I wasn't ready to go and start something brand new from scratch as a founder. So I thought there is a path here where I can look for a smaller company, come in and help them grow.

Callan Harrington  29:19

Gotcha. So what was that transition like for you?

Derrek Seif  29:21

So, I got recruited to come to this company here in town. So the headquarters was here, which was really great. Because I felt that, going back to my point about Quest Software, that the headquarters being over in California was great, but ultimately I would have to move to California to really accelerate my career. So, as I got recruited into a company here, headquartered in Columbus, they had just gone through a series A investment, and they were looking for somebody to come in, and to define the product management discipline, to partner with this CEO, help grow the company, and determine the product strategy. And I would have equity ownership to take part of if we could do that successfully. So I took the jump, I quickly learned that once I got there, that I could put all the plans into place. And then I would have to execute on all the plans as well. So, that was probably the first big learning that I had there. But I knew that because of that ownership piece of it, that I was working for myself.

Callan Harrington  30:35

How did you like that?

Derrek Seif  30:36

I loved it. I thought it was fantastic. Because it was an additional motivator for me to continue to- knowing that the input that I added into the company, and the work that I put in, I could ultimately see a financial benefit in the long term. If it was successful.

Callan Harrington  30:56

What were some of the key learnings that you had while you're in this role?

Derrek Seif  30:58

Some of the key learnings that I had were: hiring is always the most important thing that we have, because we're a small company. And when building out a product team, I took my time to find the right individual to come in and help me build the company because I felt that if I don't find the right individual, that it could set us back six to eight months, maybe even a year. So, that was probably my biggest takeaway to make sure that we took the time to find- now that put me in a little bit of a spot, because when I came in, I had the budget to build out the team, yet I took my time. And as I took my time, it just forced me that I had to go do it all, which was a very tough thing. And that kind of goes to the transition from a large company to a small company.You suddenly realize that you get to create the plan, and you have to execute on on all the details of the plan. So, I kind of- I had gone- sort of grown at the previous company, from a product manager to a product management leader. And now I was at this new company as the product management leader, but also had to be the product manager, day to day product manager as well. So filling that role, of course, was really great, because it forced me to learn the details of the product and the business, and could ultimately help inform who I should hire to fill this role and continue to grow.

Callan Harrington  32:33

So, in this role, a lot of it is, if I'm hearing you correctly, was I needed to do these other things to get the confidence to go into and just own this thing. Totally. And you got that. Why'd you ultimately leave that company?

Derrek Seif  32:45

I ultimately left that company because we had some success. We grew the company. We sold it two times along the way to two different private equity groups. And at that moment, I had been there about six years, I had done all the things that I felt were that I could do at that company. And it was time to go try something else.

Callan Harrington  33:07

Did you go to another smaller company after IBM?

Derrek Seif  33:11

So, this is where my confidence now has increased. Right? Because I've now taken a company, I've grown it, I've sold it a couple of different times to a couple different buyers. And I thought, all right, well, maybe it's time to try to do this myself. So, this is when I decided to start my own product management or product strategy consulting company. And so I said, I'm going to start this. But the question I have, for this particular company, as a sole proprietor was, is this going to be a company that I grow as a product strategy consulting company, for B2B software in complex industries? Or is this a means to an end?

Callan Harrington  34:00

Means to an end, meaning I'm going to consult until I find the absolute right position, and then I'm going to go to that position.

Derrek Seif  34:07

Exactly.

Callan Harrington  34:08

Which is a great way to do it. I've said this, this has came up on the show a couple of times. And I certainly had this when I started my own consulting firm about a year and a half ago. But a lot of those positions that were not there, like going into a CRO company at a well funded company that's got good growth, those started to pop up as a result of that. And I tell people all the time, like if you can do it, I highly recommend it. It's not easy to pull off. Did you want to build this consulting company and scale it, or was it- did you make the decision to I'm going to do this as a means to an end?

Derrek Seif  34:39

I didn't know the answer. So, I focused on getting clients. And as a sole proprietor, I'm selling or trying to get clients and then I'm also doing work. What ended up happening was I ended up getting three different clients, one in health and fitness industry, one in the ed tech industry, and one in the mobility industry. And so I was serving as the chief product officer, slash chief technology officer for all three startups in those three different industries. And over time, what I found was that in a chief product officer, technology officer in three different industries at three different startups, and a fractional basis, is a recipe for burnout. And very difficult to context switch between the three.

Callan Harrington  35:39

It's so hard. I started out fractional as well with my consulting. It sounds like, I didn't realize this, but we have very similar pasts in this regard. And kind of tell people advice on fractional, if you're doing one, it's not that bad. But once you start doing a couple, they always start out great. And they just, it's hard to end them well, because you become- whether it's part time, full time doesn't matter- you become the full- like you are dependent on as that full time person. Did you find that to be your experience?

Derrek Seif  36:07

Absolutely. Because you have to go deep in each industry, especially on the products and the problems, and all of that stuff in this particular role that I was serving in. I would find myself having to go deep, and then showing up on other companies call and talking about something from the other industry and confusing, and it just got, it got really ugly.

Callan Harrington  36:32

It makes it some people can pull it off. I'm not one of them.

Derrek Seif  36:34

Same.

Callan Harrington  36:35

So, I love that. So what- So, did it end up being a means to an end? Is this how you got into your next role?

Derrek Seif  36:42

It is, you know, timing is everything. So, what happened in the fall of 2018, what happened was, the other two were sort of plateauing in terms of needing my expertise and time because it really became less about the product and more about sales and marketing for those two. And a company called Share Mobility, here in Columbus, got a round of funding that allowed them to bring me on full time. And it was a situation where they were one of my clients. I liked what they were doing. They liked what I was doing. And so I went and full time with them.

Callan Harrington  37:22

How was that starting out at a company like that, compared to starting out your other companies?

Derrek Seif  37:27

So, I've now progressively gone from one of the largest companies in the world, down to one of the smallest companies in the world The transition was, I think, was definitely easier because I had made that progression down from the earth solutions company here in town, and then down to Share. I loved the excitement, and the passion around solving the problem. And the challenge really became I had even less resources and had to do even more things that were beyond the scope that I was typically brought in to do.

Callan Harrington  38:09

And as a follow up question to that, coming from being a consultant to them first, and then joining full time? Did that make that transition into the company itself much easier?

Derrek Seif  38:19

Yes. And because I really got to- I was essentially, as part of it, it's like dating, right, I got to learn their personalities. I really got to learn how they work. I really got to learn where I could add value, and where I wanted to add value, and really dive deep into the problems that they were solving. And I found that I was super passionate about the focus that they had, and ultimately the mission that they were trying to accomplish. And I think that understanding of the business to a level of depth, increased my confidence that this was the right position for me. I could add value to them, and I could get really excited about it. So, I think that was super helpful.

Callan Harrington  39:05

Did you find just as a purely out of my own curiosity, when you went into the company, you knew the positives and negatives going into it? Did you find that still to be the case? Or was there ever a moment where like, well, this is totally different than when I was a consultant? Or was it pretty consistent?

Derrek Seif  39:21

It was very consistent. Yes, there was nothing else that I really uncovered. Because I was- I had done it for so long and had been in a lot of the details of the business and of the operations.

Callan Harrington  39:32

I think that's excellent. A lot of people worry about that. They worry, it's like, well, I don't know, if I'm actually in there. It's just gonna be totally different. But I found in my case that it's pretty consistent because you deal with the fact that they're paying you as a third party actually makes you more expendable. They're not putting on the best face, the best show at all times, because they don't have to. Rigt? They're not an employee in there where you have to do that more than you would, I found. Did you find something similar?

Derrek Seif  40:00

Yes, I was expendable. They could let me go at any point in time. So, I was also responsible for building the product, and building the solution for the problem that they were trying to solve. So I had to be in the details. It was the role that I was responsible for. I had to work with the engineering firm that they had a relationship with. And I had an opportunity to build that relationship and make it better.

Callan Harrington  40:26

Why'd you ultimately leave there?

Derrek Seif  40:28

I left there... We had spent a couple of years building out the platform. And the business as a startup was really needed to focus and invest their dollars into the sales and marketing piece, after we had built the product to a certain level. So we got the product out there, we got it working. And because it became a sales and marketing investment focus, I had the opportunity, in a series, of events to decide that it was time to leave and go pursue something else.

Callan Harrington  41:05

Is that when you went to VPLS, after?

Derrek Seif  41:07

Yep, and that's where I got connected into VPL has the opportunity. So it was again, a- I got connected into VPL, because somebody knew my experience in the startup community, in the tech community here in Columbus, and had reached out to me and I entertained it, and went to the founder of Share and said, I think, um, my work here is done, you need to focus on sales and marketing and investment. And so I'll go do something else, and continue to be involved in the business as you need me.

Callan Harrington  41:42

Yeah. So it sounds like that ended on really good terms. Absolutely. Which is so important. And now you're at VPL, and we kind of talked about that, how VPL has been a rocket ship. The final question I have is, if you were able to have a conversation with your younger self, age totally up to you, what would that conversation be? What advice would you give?

Derrek Seif  42:03

The advice that I would give myself is, I'm going to channel my my dad in his career, He had always said that, if you're not tap dancing to work every day, then go find something else to do. And so early on, from a problem that I'm trying to solve, the technology that I'm involved in, the people that I'm working with, throughout my entire career, I think I would say to my younger self, are you tap dancing to work every day? Are you excited about going to work every day? Because if you're not, you should tap out and go to the next one. And to do that maybe even sooner than I had done in the past. Instead of sticking out some situations that- instead of persevering through some maybe not so great situations.

Callan Harrington  43:01

100%. I think sometimes we feel that we have to... like there's some badge of honor doing that. And there's not. Don't do it just to do it. If you're not enjoying it, get out. That's what I'm hearing essentially?

Derrek Seif  43:12

Yes, but that that comes certainly with confidence and experience. Yes.

Callan Harrington  43:16

I love it.

Derrek Seif  43:17

And maybe some good old fashioned Midwestern values.

Callan Harrington  43:21

Yeah, exactly. I love it. I love it. Well, Derrek, this has been great. Thanks for coming on the show, man.

Derrek Seif  43:26

Thank you very much. I really enjoyed the conversation.

Callan Harrington  43:28

I love it.  I hope you enjoyed Derrek and I's conversation. I loved hearing Derrek's story of getting promoted after delivering the tough news. If you know in your heart you're doing what's right for the business, it's almost always going to be the right move. If you want to learn more about Derrek, you could find him on LinkedIn in the show notes. Also, if you liked this episode, you could find me on LinkedIn to let me know. And if you really want to support the show, a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify is very much appreciated. Thanks for listening, and I'll see everybody next week.