Jane Mosbacher Morris - Founder and CEO of TO THE MARKET: Change Management, Using Capitalism to Make an Impact, and Thought Leadership

Jane Mosbacher Morris 00:00
Get so many things done, especially things that are hard. Never underestimate the number of like, touch points that are required. Never assume that you thought the conversation went well. And you don't need your friend who's friends with them to say anything, or you're an investor who knows them as well to come, you know, throw in a good word. It's like you sandwich them with information about, like, why this deal is so great, or why your idea is so great, or why they should hire you, or whatever it is that you're working on. Like, nothing should go untouched, nothing left to chance.

Callan Harrington 00:29
You're listening to That Worked, a show that breaks down the careers of top founders and executives and pulls out those key items that led to their success. I'm your host, Callan Harrington, founder of Flashgrowth, and I couldn't be more excited that you're here.

Callan Harrington 00:47
Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of That Worked. This week, I'm joined by Jane Mosbacher Morris. Jane is the CEO of To The Market. To The Market is a turnkey solution for ethical manufacturing and sourcing of apparel, accessories, and home goods. Before To The Market, Jane was the Director of Humanitarian Action for the McCain Institute and a counterterrorism advisor for the U.S. State Department. She is also the author of Buy The Change You Want To See, a book that explores how you can have a greater social impact through your everyday purchases.

This was a super interesting conversation. Jane is a great example of how you can utilize capitalism to take on some of those very big humanitarian concerns. We also talked about how to address hesitancy around the cost of change within a business. That change management piece is one of the most important things you have to nail if you want to land really large enterprise deals. We also discussed how Jane educates investors on the current state of an unfamiliar market before rushing in with a pitch. And what I mean by that specifically, is oftentimes when you're doing something really unique, like Jane is, it's hard to find investors that have all the details of that industry.

With that being said, my favorite part of the conversation was discussing how developing thought leadership can lead to accelerated growth within a business. Jane talked about her decision to write a book, and she also walked us through the networking plan that led to the right publishing house and also the right audience. As a result, thought leadership is super interesting. It's talked about a lot, but one of the things I think is very underrated about thought leadership is its ability to get you in the right rooms. It can open a lot of doors, and I loved hearing how this worked for Jane, and I think it'd be an interesting playbook for somebody to follow. So with that, let's get to the show.

Callan Harrington 02:57
So Jane, tell me about what inspired you to start your business?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 03:01
Yeah. I mean, I would have been surprised if someone told me I would be working in supply chain or touching on the retail industry, because I started my career in such a different place. I started my career working in the public sector and counterterrorism, and was working all over the world and really, really difficult economies, very, very difficult countries of the state of peace that was being pursued. And many of these countries, when I started spending time on the ground, I was just taken by the lack of dignified jobs that were available. And even though I thought I would continue to work in counterterrorism, I had this sort of seed of passion that was planted where I just thought, how can we ever achieve peace and prosperity if there are so many people that are not meaningfully employed? And began to study developing world economies because of that.

You know, went to Columbia Business School, stayed at the US Department of State, where I was working, continue to work in counterterrorism, but really started looking at developing world economies. And I remember being and a block week for Columbia Business School overseas. We were doing a block week in Hong Kong. We went over to mainland China, and we did a number of factory visits that were producing product for brands that sell for hundreds of dollars, you know, certain products 1000s of dollars, so contemporary brands that have very large appeal. And was shocked at what those factories looked like, that there would be such a delta in what's charged versus what I was seeing. You know, you sort of imagine that if you're paying 300 or $400 for a pair of shoes, for example, you think that you're getting a product that's coming from maybe a workshop or, you know, an exceptionally clean and well-run facility with, you know, lots of air conditioning and master artisans. And what I saw instead was...

Callan Harrington 05:00
...extraordinarily bad conditions?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 05:01
Exactly, lack of AC, very little mobility for the workers, very young workers, and it just reminded me that we have such an opportunity as consumers to think differently about the way in which we engage with brands because the romance that brands tell us about how they're made and what that sort of represents may be very disconnected from the reality of how that good is, in fact, created. There may, in fact, be serious pain associated with how a product was made. So I really began to focus more on how can I create a business that would be commercially viable, market-driven, that would make it much easier for companies and consumers to work with brands and their factories that are operating differently, much more ethically, much more sustainably, that better represent what the brand is going to market and claiming, rather than what I saw that day.

Callan Harrington 06:00
You mentioned this started all the way back when you were at Columbia, but the actual founding of the business happened years later. That's correct, right?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 06:07
Oh yeah, almost a decade later. And I think one of the things that's interesting is, was your time spent in the US, Department of State? Did that lead you to a number of these more mission-driven positions?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 06:25
Certainly, part of that absolutely, I've always believed that there is an opportunity to drive solutions, whether from the public sector, or the private sector, in a way that is more than the sum of its parts. Meaning that I can be effective in my counterterrorism work in a very blunt way, or I can be effective in my counterterrorism work in a much more nuanced way, which may have redemptive, fruitful outcomes beyond just achieving that initial objective. So I've always tried to be as creative as possible when thinking about, how do I create short- and long-term impact?

But as I thought about it, from a business perspective, I’m also a committed capitalist, and feel very strongly that markets drive so much of what we do in the world. So I felt strongly that whatever I built needed to be market-driven, commercially scalable, but built into the DNA of the business was driving a better outcome for businesses, for both their bottom line, as well as for people and planet.

Callan Harrington 07:22
Why is that? Why do you think the impact is bigger in a commercial company than it is at, let’s say, a government agency or a nonprofit?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 07:30
Yeah, as we talked about, I started seeing the challenges in supply chains and the way products were made almost a decade before I actually started the business. One of the steps I took between starting my business and leaving the State Department was working on human trafficking and labor exploitation. What I learned very quickly is there's something like $400 million committed annually to fight human trafficking and labor exploitation—committed by governments, private sources, foundations, etc. Compare that $400 million to the industry I’ve entered: the sourcing and manufacturing of just three simple categories—apparel, accessories, and home goods, a multi-trillion dollar industry, not billion, trillion. You compare the scale of that industry to the public money, and it pales in comparison.

To me, the opportunity to drive change, if you can effectively leverage market forces, far outweighs what you can do with public money alone. Most money that goes abroad is private—whether it's someone like you and me sending money to a relative or private investments. $400 million is a drop in the bucket compared to trillions. Real change can’t be done on just $400 million.

Callan Harrington 08:47
Totally. Even on a micro level, if you think about individuals—how much they spend on things like apparel, accessories, and home goods versus what they give to charity—it’s a huge difference.

Jane Mosbacher Morris 08:58
Exactly! For the vast majority of people, it’s the case. You're spending way more on discretionary purchases than you’re giving away. So our ability to wield power through how we spend money far outweighs what we give to philanthropic organizations.

Callan Harrington 09:10
Yeah, I can say that’s definitely true for me.

Jane Mosbacher Morris 09:12
And it’s the case for 99.9% of people, unless they have a family foundation or significant wealth. For most of us, discretionary spending far outweighs our charitable giving.

Callan Harrington 09:23
So, you mentioned that it took about a decade before you started the business. Was this something where you always wanted to be an entrepreneur, or was it something you realized as you got deeper into the problem?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 09:35
I’ve always been entrepreneurial. I started a sleepover camp for my little sister’s friends, pitched their parents, and ran it as a camp counselor and director. From there, I had many entrepreneurial moments in my childhood. I always loved selling. I wrote about this in my book, but when I was a Brownie selling Girl Scout cookies, I remember asking my mom for the phone numbers of everyone who lived on the most expensive street in Houston where I grew up because I was convinced they’d have significant spending power.

At the State Department, I was entrepreneurial in my work too, creating new programs and solutions. But I didn’t set out to start a business. I went to Georgetown and studied the School of Foreign Service. I thought I’d be in national security forever, largely because of the impact 9/11 had on me. So the idea of starting a business didn’t come right away—it evolved from observing the opportunity and feeling capable of being part of the solution.

Callan Harrington 10:36
What was the moment where you said, "Okay, I have to do this"? How did you get to that point?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 10:42
Once I recognized that there was an opportunity and a need, it became a process of gathering more information—learning, observing—but I didn’t have a clear business model for almost a decade. I was working at different places, testing market feedback, and looking at solutions that hadn’t scaled. It was a long journey. But when I finally started testing things and looking at market feedback, I started to see patterns. One of the big moments was when, within the first 60 days, I had a few customers, and one did a five-figure order. It took a week to close that deal. That’s when I thought, "Okay, the market is telling me something. I need to pay attention." That was really critical before I went out to raise capital.

Callan Harrington 11:36
How did you find those early clients? You were still working full-time at this point, correct?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 11:40
Yeah, that’s right. I was talking to people in my network, telling them I was thinking of doing this and asking if they saw a need for it. A lot of customer discovery work, which led to people saying, "Yes, we have an immediate need for that. Let’s try to do something together." So I said, "Let’s do it."

Callan Harrington 12:00
It sounds like one of those situations where the saying "When you want money, ask for advice, and when you want advice, ask for money" applies.

Jane Mosbacher Morris 12:07
Yes, absolutely. But I don’t think I even knew that principle at the time. I wasn’t desperate to start something. I was waiting until I felt comfortable with the approach. I say to younger entrepreneurs that there’s value in patience, in observing and learning before jumping into creating something that may fail. I studied what hadn’t worked a lot—looking at different business models that tried to tackle challenges in supply chains. I felt I needed to absorb a lot before I could credibly start a business.

Callan Harrington 13:00
That makes total sense, especially in the space that you're in. Correct me if I’m wrong on this, but I have to assume for many companies, this was probably controversial because they were using less ethical methods that were more cost-effective, even if harmful. Did you find that to be a factor in the early days?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 13:20
Yes, there's always hesitancy to resist change, especially when there's a cost associated with it—both financially and psychologically. I don’t identify as an activist. I’m very much pro-business and believe in the power of markets. So a lot of the writing I do, including my book, is more focused on providing solutions that are commercially viable, which helps business leaders see that I’m not coming in to shame them or disrupt their business model.

We help businesses lower their risk by transitioning them to suppliers and factories that are performing better in terms of business performance, sustainability, and social compliance. Our pitch is that we help reduce their risk and enhance their brand without necessarily sacrificing cost. Sometimes it’s not possible to be as cheap as forced labor, but we often find that by working with ethical factories, we can achieve competitive costs or even savings.

Callan Harrington 14:47
I’m curious, from a tactical perspective, how do you manage the change management process? You’ve worked with some big brands, and I’m assuming there’s a lot of internal resistance when you suggest changes. What does that process look like?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 15:00
It’s always helpful to start small and gradually increase the scope. Change can feel overwhelming, so we typically focus on a specific category or area of the business first. That allows us to prove ourselves without overwhelming the client. Another important aspect is identifying the key stakeholders and understanding what they care about. Our job as salespeople and entrepreneurs is to make those people feel good, make them look good, and support them in achieving their goals.

By showing them that our solution aligns with their goals and can make them successful, we increase our chances of converting them. You always have to figure out what their hot buttons are and how you can support them.

Callan Harrington 16:00
I assume the positive press that comes with using a company like yours helps with that conversion process as well?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 16:07
A lot of times, yes. But not always. Some companies include us in internal reports but don't brand it publicly. Others put us on their website, on product tags, or even create QR codes linking to information about our impact. It depends on the company and their consumer base. Some consumers care deeply about ethical sourcing, while others may not be as concerned. We provide the data and leave it to the company to decide how to use it.

Callan Harrington 17:00
Your product is so unique. What’s a challenge you face that’s unique to this kind of business?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 17:07
One of the biggest challenges for B2B businesses, including ours, is fundraising. Most venture capitalists don’t have a background in procurement or supply chains, so they don’t immediately understand the pain points we’re addressing. That means we have to educate them on how broken supply chains are, how much waste there is, and how harmful they can be. It’s a harder pitch because there’s a learning curve involved.

Callan Harrington 17:40
How do you handle that education process? Is it mostly data-driven?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 17:45
Yes, it’s a lot of data. We have to over-communicate statistics and provide proof of the regulatory landscape, the impact of those regulations, and customer testimonials. It’s all about convincing them, rather than assuming they already understand the issues. Despite COVID highlighting the brokenness of supply chains, people have short memories.

Callan Harrington 18:30
Did you end up taking on investors who had experience in the retail space? How did you find the right investors?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 18:37
We were fortunate to do our pre-seed round with TechStars and Target, which gave us exposure to big companies like Target with large procurement needs. From there, we had to network our way in. I didn’t grow up in retail, so I didn’t have a legacy network to lean on, but I had to get creative. Whether through organizations like TechStars or by going to industry events, writing, and speaking, we had to build credibility and create thought leadership in the space.

Callan Harrington 19:30
You’ve mentioned thought leadership and content strategy a few times. How long did it take for that to start paying off?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 19:37
I was very fortunate because I enjoy writing, and I put together a book proposal that was picked up by Penguin Random House. That really accelerated my thought leadership. Having a major publisher behind me made it much easier to get into the right rooms. The book became a product of the company, and it acted like a Trojan horse. People would buy the book or invite me to speak about it, and they’d be learning the thesis of the business at the same time.

Callan Harrington 20:30
Getting a major publisher to pick up your book is a tough feat. How did you pull that off?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 20:37
It wasn’t easy. I got lucky with a journalist, Lee Clayton, who was one of my advisors. She encouraged me to approach literary agents, and a few of them thought my idea was interesting enough to take on. Once we had the proposal, it was up to them to shop it around to the major publishers. I knew I needed a big publisher if I wanted to elevate the company, so I went all-in on making it happen.

Callan Harrington 21:30
You’ve had a lot of success, but I know that also comes with a lot of failure. What’s next for you personally?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 21:37
We’re closing another round of capital, which is exciting. We have some amazing names participating, which is a big milestone for us. It’ll give us the resources to continue growing, and I’m excited to see what we can achieve.

Callan Harrington 22:00
If you could go back in time and give your younger self some advice, what would it be?

Jane Mosbacher Morris 22:07
I would tell myself to get more comfortable with rejection earlier on. In entrepreneurship, rejection is a steady part of your daily life—people don’t want to work with you, customers don’t like your product, investors say no. When I first started, rejection felt like a punch in the gut, but now I deal with it every day. It’s still tough, but you get better at handling it.

Callan Harrington 23:30
That’s great advice. Jane, thank you for coming on today. It was great hearing your story.

Jane Mosbacher Morris 23:35
Thank you so much for having me.

Callan Harrington 35:38
I hope you enjoyed Jane and I's conversation. I love talking through how Jane was able to land that book deal and the impact that thought leadership has had on her business. If you want to learn more about Jane, you can find her on LinkedIn in the show notes. Also, if you like this episode, you could find me on LinkedIn to let me know. And if you really want to support the show, a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify is very much appreciated. Thanks for listening, everybody, and I’ll see you next week.