Jill Apgar - Founder & CEO of Coco Beans: Crowdfunding, In-Person Events, Leading with Kindness and Turning a Personal Challenge into a New Business

Jill Apgar  00:00

So we had circled, I think at the time it was October 1st, and I was laid off at the end of July. I thought that that would be enough time to do all of the things that needed to be done to launch this campaign. And I actually think we got pretty close. We launched on October 16th. So that was the first thing I did, I set a goal and said I was going to hold myself accountable to a certain timeframe. And then I just started hitting the phones.

Callan Harrington  00:23

You're listening to That Worked, a show that breaks down the careers of top founders and executives and pulls out those key items that led to their success. I'm your host, Callan Harrington, founder of Flashgrowth, and I couldn't be more excited that you're here. Welcome back, everyone to another episode of That Worked. I'm excited for this week's episode. I'm joined by Jill Apgar. Jill is the founder of Coco Beans. Coco Beans is a luxury children's brand transforming bedtime into peaceful magic. Coco Beans 100% silk crib sheets create icky-free whimsical bedding and sleepwear. Jill was named to the Entreprenista 100 list, and has been featured alongside Coco Beans in US Weekly, Business Insider, and Good Housekeeping. I learned a lot in this episode. Jill started Coco Beans from a crowdfunding campaign, and I had no idea what it takes to make a successful campaign. Spoiler here, it's not easy. We talked about how strategic she was in building her career in general, and how she took the personal challenge of managing her daughter's curly hair into launching a full blown company from it. One of the most interesting things for me is how she used in-person events to drive digital sales. In a world where everyone is trying to compete online, there's an underserved need for in-person events. It's an area that I'm personally very excited about. And I learned a lot as she took us through her events. So with that, let's jump into the show. Jill, welcome to the show.

Jill Apgar  02:07

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Callan Harrington  02:09

Oh, we're excited to have you. And then Jen Lyttle is also co-hosting with us. Jen, I'm excited.

Jen Lyttle  02:15

I'm back.

Callan Harrington  02:15

You are back. We go by fifty-two cuts. So she's got a good chance of going on the next one for sure.

Jen Lyttle  02:24

Amazing.

Callan Harrington  02:27

 Jill, tell us a little bit about Coco Beans.

Jill Apgar  02:29

Yeah, so Coco Beans is a luxury children's brand. We source the world's softest most luxurious fabrics to create what we call icky-free bedding and sleepwear. We're best known for our silk crib sheets. They were a product driven out of a need that I had for my daughter and her incredibly beautiful curly hair. And we've since grown to offer a full suite of bedding products. So we offer crib sheets, pillowcases pajamas, and our most recent launch is a silk blanket.

Callan Harrington  03:02

So was this started from a crowdfunding?

Jill Apgar  03:06

We did crowd fund just to fund our very first purchase order we launched a crowdfunding campaign.

Callan Harrington  03:12

Tell us about that process.

Jill Apgar  03:14

Yes. Okay. First, I'll just preface this by saying it was hands down the hardest thing I've ever done. In July of 2020, I was laid off from my corporate job. And I had developed this product for my daughter about eighteen months before. I said, I have this product, I see this white space in the market, but we are not by any means independently wealthy. How am I going to start up this business? And I hit the ground running, talked to pretty much anyone who would take a meeting with me who had anything to do with having started their own business. And unanimously was start cheap, fail fast, if you can do crowdfunding, try it. Because it serves as this platform to not only solve your immediate problem of capital, but also offers a sort of testing ground. If you can reach your goal, you can somewhat prove that there's at least some product market fit.

Callan Harrington  04:12

How does that work? Do they take an equity within the company or what does that look like?

Jill Apgar  04:17

So there are different platforms, each with their own sort of rules, but I selected a platform called IFundWomen which operates very similar to Kickstarter or Indiegogo. All of them operate pretty similar in terms of fees. So you raise the money through these people that contribute, and the platform takes a fee in addition to the credit card fees. So it winds up being all in between IFundWomen platform fees and the Stripe credit card fees 7% ish. But IFundWomen operates a little bit different from Kickstarter and Indiegogo in that you get those funds and immediately. So when you launch a Kickstarter and you say I want to raise $50,000, you only get the $50,000 if you hit that mark. So if you raise $49,500, you get nothing. IFundWomen operates a little differently in that as soon as that transaction happens, the funds are deposited to your business account. One, that felt like less risk. And two, at least at the time, IFundWomen was a small team. And I felt like I had their undivided attention. They knew my name, they knew what I what my business was, I felt like I could really stand out and have an impact within their community. And that wound up being a wise decision for me.

Jen Lyttle  05:50

That's an amazing story.

Callan Harrington  05:51

Does that work? As in- Is this a loan? Or what does that look like?

Jill Apgar  05:57

It's not a loan. You are essentially marketing your business. So I sent out an email to every person that I had met in my professional life, personal life, if I had spoken to you in the last, call it twelve years, you were on that email distro. So you market it, you bring the customers to contribute to your cause. And so in my case, I was pre selling my silk crib sheets. So I said, you buy them now at this price at the time, they were $98. And when I launched officially, the following year, they were $108. So you got a little bit of a discounted price. And you were helping me because most of the people that contribute to a crowdfunding campaign are people that you know.

Callan Harrington  06:46

Gotcha, the crowdfunding is based around, okay, help this person go. But as a result, you can also get, whether it's a discount on the actual product, or-

Jill Apgar  06:55

Exactly.

Callan Harrington  06:55

 Whatever that may be. Okay.

Jill Apgar  06:57

People run them several different ways. But the way I chose to run my campaign was a presale. And then I had a tier that was like a founding member of the Coco Beans family, and you could choose to contribute $1,000. And I had a landing page on my website, which in hindsight is so embarrassing- that first website, but we can talk about that later. But I had all of those people listed as just honoring their commitment to me and their belief in me.

Jen Lyttle  07:29

It's also the first buy-in too. You get your first list of customers.

Jill Apgar  07:33

Absolutely.

Jen Lyttle  07:33

Email lists.

Jill Apgar  07:34

Those are some of my best customers even today. And they've stuck with me and have followed me along each product launch. And it proves to be really helpful.

Callan Harrington  07:44

That's really cool. Jen, you'll probably appreciate this. I have invested in a crowdfunding before. It was for the money gun.

Jen Lyttle  07:53

Oh, my gosh, okay.

Callan Harrington  07:56

It was a gun that shot money.

Jill Apgar  07:58

Awesome.

Callan Harrington  07:58

And this- Yeah.

Jill Apgar  08:00

Who doesn't need one of those?

Callan Harrington  08:01

Exactly. It was for the sales floor. And that's what I wanted to do. And yeah, you live and you learn, I never got the money.

Jill Apgar  08:10

That's a little bit of the risk that you take when you're pre-ordering through something like a crowdfunding campaign. And you see it with Kickstarter more, because it's a bigger platform. But that is ultimately the risk that you take. In my case, I had already developed the product, I had a manufacturer, I personally would never attach my name to something that I didn't think I could actually produce.

Jen Lyttle  08:31

Yeah, those stories of crowdfunding or donating to some type of source that doesn't end up doing anything, you know, which is really interesting. And so interesting for you to say, I worked with this group specifically because of X,Y, and Z. And I think that is an awesome story, too.

Callan Harrington  08:48

Yeah, it's one of those things where in doing the research, I saw that you mentioned specifically that it was thirty to forty-five days of just an all out blitz, all out sales and marketing blitz. Walk us through that, what does that look like?

Jill Apgar  09:02

So you set a goal. I set a goal of $25,000. And you set a deadline for yourself. And I had done research that suggested about a month is the standard time for a campaign to be successful, because any longer than that people get bored, any shorter than that you're not able to really access your target. So for thirty days, all I talked about, all I thought about, was hitting this campaign and I will say the first ten- Getting to the first 10,000 was pretty easy. I felt like that's like the tried and true, like the friends that you knew were going to be with you no matter what. And then once I needed to move beyond that is really when it became challenging, and I had no background in marketing. I legitimately thought I was going to like put up my Instagram profile. Stand up this website and the people were going to come. I genuinely believed that.

Jen Lyttle  10:01

That's what  it seems like online.

Jill Apgar  10:02

Yes. Especially in the world of social media. And this was during COVID, where everyone was on their phone. And I was like, surely I will have 100,000 followers in no time at all.

Callan Harrington  10:12

Sure.

Jen Lyttle  10:13

Throw the light switch on.

Jill Apgar  10:14

I don't even think I have 3000 today. Like reality sets in pretty quick. And it's something that I tell when I'm sharing advice with younger entrepreneurs who are thinking about crowdfunding, I'm like, please don't do it without a legitimate marketing plan down to the day. What are you going to be talking about for each day of that campaign? Because so much of the anxiety came from: What am I going to talk about? On each and every day, because I've had none of that laid out. So that wound up being an important sort of learning lesson. And just the preparation required for something like that.

Callan Harrington  10:49

Yeah, that's really interesting. What would you recommend somebody do? Is it email blast? Is it posting on social? Is it meeting people in person? Is it getting other people that you know, that are really connected to share this? What does that like- If somebody's I'm going into this, what is the best way that they can maximize this?

Jill Apgar  11:07

So, I think the first thing is making sure that you have enough time. So, being realistic with your expectations. And I think this can absolutely be done within ninety days. But if you're at day ninety, counting down to your campaign launching on day zero, the first thing I say is start talking to everyone you know about this idea, because the worst thing that could happen is for your friends and family and network to hear about it for the first time on the day your campaign launches. So what I did was I told people that I was working on this, so they were anticipating it, and you sort of drum up some of that excitement. And people need to hear things multiple times. I think that as a business owner, sometimes I get in my own head and I start to, quote unquote, annoy myself, because I feel like I'm only talking about this one thing, but I think about my business 100% of the time. I'm lucky if my customers think about me 1% of their time.

Jen Lyttle  12:05

Yeah. And it's the magic number of seven in the marketing world that you have to hear and see a message seven times before it even resonates with people at all.

Jill Apgar  12:14

Absolutely.

Jen Lyttle  12:14

 So that's super interesting how that translates.

Callan Harrington  12:18

Okay, so I want to go back where did your career start out just in general?

Jill Apgar  12:20

Yeah, so I started my career at Abercrombie and Fitch. I moved here from the East Coast, lifelong East Coast girl, I signed a two year contract to work for A & F in their corporate merchandising program. And I haven't looked back. So here we are fifteen years later. But I started in that merchandising program. And I studied finance and economics in college and sort of found my way into fashion by accident. I cold called the recruiter at Abercrombie during my junior year of college. And he then told me that he would be on campus in the fall, which is sort of how I got my job there.

Callan Harrington  13:02

My guess is when you started at Abercrombie, that was kind of when it's in its heyday.

Jill Apgar  13:07

Yeah, I started in 2008. So it was probably like just past peak, where they were still riding the coattails of some of that ops success. And then you know, 2008 is really when things started to turn. In 2009, I remember the first round of layoffs started and that just sort of snowballed. And in hindsight, I feel like those layoffs have followed me my entire career. There's sort of that shadow that you're lurking in the background, and that really started right out of the gate. So something I got pretty used to. But I spent four years at Abercrombie, and I knew that if I wanted to make a career in merchandising, I would probably have to gain experience outside of Abercrombie because at the time, though, the Abercrombie merchandising program was intense and amazing, and they trusted you with pretty significant responsibility right out of the gate. It had a heavy emphasis on product and design and less on financial rigor. And so I knew that if I wanted to make a career in merchandising, I would have to find experience elsewhere. And I set my sights on Victoria's Secret Pink, and this was at the heyday of VS Pink. So they had just achieved their first billion dollar sales year. And this was the days of Ashley Tisdale, and the brand was riding high, and I wanted to work there. So I applied I interviewed and ultimately was passed over because they wanted someone with a little bit more financial experience. So I wound up taking a job at Limited Stores. I worked at Limited Stores for about a year. And I worked in their- I was managing their dresses division, which was a huge departure from my job at A & F. At A & F I was managing women's sweaters. This was a highly visible category, huge volume driver for the business, so there was a lot of scrutiny. My job at Limited was the exact opposite of that. I was in dresses, it was a much smaller category, not a ton of visibility. And I was able to sort of pursue my curiosities and creativity and make mistakes in terms of business strategy, without those eyeballs on my business. And I wound up befriending the vice president of e-commerce at the time, who proved to be pretty pivotal in my career. We'll get there in a second. But she wound up taking me under her wing and allowed me to pursue a lot of those strategic curiosities. And I was there for about a year and another position opened up at Victoria's Secret Pink. So of course, I called the recruiter and said, not only do I want this job, I am the perfect candidate for this job. And spoiler alert, I got the job. So I wond up moving over to Pink and what a ride. I was managing their lounge business, which was sweatpants and sweatshirts. It was the largest division in apparel, there was consecutive quarters of double digit growth. So really an exciting time to join the business. I was able to learn, I guess it was more about growth beyond that of an individual contributor and growing into a leader, managing not only my direct reports, but also a large cross functional team, and refining the art of influence, if you will.

Callan Harrington  16:31

So for the people that are unfamiliar, because the merchandising role is a really cool role. What is that? If you can give kind of an overview of what the merchandising role is?

Jill Apgar  16:39

Yeah, merchandising, at its core is the business of fashion. And you'll hear it referred to sometimes as the hub of the wheel. And so we work with cross-functional partners. So everyone from concept to designers, to product manufacturers, to in-season planners and allocators getting product where it needs to go in the store, to hindsighting what worked and didn't work in the business. So it's really truly an amalgamation of all of those components. And typically, in most businesses, the merchants are driving the business strategy for a category.

Callan Harrington  17:24

Gotcha. I knew it was a fun role. I was not smart enough to get that job. I wanted that job at Abercrombie in particular. So you went to Limited. Was this to round out kind of that financial part?

Jill Apgar  17:35

Yep, it was 100% the stepping stone I needed to take in order to get that financial rigor under my belt. So things like managing inventory levels, with your planner, understanding how big you should plan a season, really digging into hindsight and the analytics behind the product. And so that was a muscle I sort of needed to really work in order to prove that I was valuable to a company like Pink.

Callan Harrington  18:08

Gotcha. So you moved into this role, got that, moved into where you want it to be, cold called the recruiter again, which I love. And then-

Jen Lyttle  18:17

That's the part I wanted to chat about.

Callan Harrington  18:18

Yeah, go ahead, dive in!

Jen Lyttle  18:20

There's so much. I love this common theme that I'm hearing from your guests, other podcast guests, about: I wanted this thing, so I called to the person who was doing the thing and said, this is why we should talk. And that's such a skill that most people who are in sales, I mean, quite frankly, are scared to exercise. So that I love that you said that you did that twice now, which is amazing.

Jill Apgar  18:20

Yeah.  I think it comes from a place truly of being naive. And just being so laser focused on something that the fear- I don't even give myself a chance to feel scared, truly.

Jen Lyttle  18:59

I love that.

Jill Apgar  19:00

Because I think if I did spend too much time thinking about it, I would never do it.

Jen Lyttle  19:04

Totally. I love it.

Callan Harrington  19:05

It's just a bias for action. And it is true. If I'm hearing you, you're so locked in, it was this is what I want, this is how- I'm gonna get it in any way that I have to do it. Which that's a really hard move, to move from, you know, going in that role to taking a step back. And to then take two steps forward. Most people won't do that. It's more kind of, here's the next I'm being opportunistic, the next good job that pays 20,000-30,000 more I'm going to go jump into this, as opposed to saying I'm going to come over here, round this out to get the big step up. To fast forward a little bit, what was that like going from an individual contributor to a leader?

Jill Apgar  19:43

It was a very tricky evolution. And I was grateful that I've had amazing direct reports along the way, who have trusted me enough to be honest with me, who have really held me accountable when I've done things wrong, and also been my biggest cheerleaders when they've liked what I've done. And I feel like I've always stuck to a certain set of values, I believe in leading with kindness, I'm never going to be mean in my leadership style. And so that leading with those core values definitely helped me along the transition from out of that individual contributor role into more of a leadership role.

Callan Harrington  20:26

I'm going to ask a question, might be a little controversial.

Jill Apgar  20:29

Yeah.

Callan Harrington  20:30

How do you deal- How do you manage somebody that is just purposely going against the grain, when you're leading with kindness? Just in general?

Jill Apgar  20:40

Yeah. So, I've been fortunate where I haven't had to really deal with that a ton. But when you're leading someone who is for lack of a better word, difficult, keeping an eye on the end goal. What is it that we are trying to achieve together? And as hard as it is, leaving the emotion out of it. And there have been times where I've done that well, and times where I haven't. But just keeping the emphasis and focus on: what is it that we're trying to achieve? At the end of the day, we have a mutually aligned upon goal. How do we figure that out together? And sometimes just saying, like, how can I help you get to this goal? Putting myself out there and making myself available.

Callan Harrington  21:25

Yeah. So, if I'm hearing you, it's: we both are going after this goal, there's no point for us to just be butting heads on this. So how do we align toward accomplishing that goal? And then I mean, the reality is, at that point is if somebody's- if you've done everything that you just said, and somebody's still like, "mmm, no, I'm not bothering."

Jill Apgar  21:46

And knowing when to walk away.

Callan Harrington  21:47

Right.

Jill Apgar  21:47

And knowing when to say this conversation is no longer productive. And that's that.

Jen Lyttle  21:52

Leaving it at that.

Jill Apgar  21:52

So, leaving it at that, and walking away. And then, maybe it's the next day or a week later, coming back and approaching it again. Or if you are- Where I feel like I've dealt with this the most is where neither party is the final decision maker. And so knowing, you know what, this is a waste of time, let's grab that actual decision maker. And let's move on.

Callan Harrington  22:13

What I love about that is, which I think is key, is try to work it out first, and then okay, if we can't work it out, then we need a third party to walk us through this, because we're not getting this on our own. Which sometimes, you know, I had this conversation earlier, and if you think about it, you're probably on the same side of the issue 80% of the way, but it's the 20% that's just so hard to- It's that you're almost just both kind of focused on one thing, and then you get somebody else like oh, yeah, we're actually thinking the same thing. This makes total sense.

Jill Apgar  22:39

Exactly. And not being afraid to- If I was the sole, the final decision maker in this situation, not being afraid to just say, "I hear you, I value that point of view, but we're going to take this direction, and I hope that you can accept that." Move on. Case closed.

Callan Harrington  22:57

Absolutely. So as you're kind of growing with Victoria's Secret, when was it throughout this process for you where you're just like, I've got to start a business?

Jill Apgar  23:05

Well, by accident. Like a lot of things in my life, sort of by accident. I was laid off from my role at Victoria's Secret in July of 2020. All brands laid off 800 people and I was among them. And I was at this place where the prospects at my level in retail were not abundant. And I was fortunate enough to be in a position where I didn't immediately have to solve for a new job. And my husband was super supportive and said, "Jill, if you want to pursue this for yourself, I 100% stand behind you." And I had always had sort of an entrepreneurial itch. I just didn't know how that would ever manifest. I never thought- I wouldn't say that I was the type of kid that was like, "one day, I'm gonna grow up, and I'm gonna have my own business." But I've been creative and entrepreneurial from the beginning. So I guess that part wasn't as much of a surprise. I alluded to this earlier, but I don't think I thought that hard about what the end goal would be. I thought, this is what's in front of me today. And I think this is the best decision that I can make today. And I'm just going to go to that. Because again, I think if I had really thought through it, I probably would have been too scared.

Callan Harrington  24:25

So what did you do? How did you start diving into it?

Jill Apgar  24:28

Yeah, so the first thing I did, and I'll never forget this, I sat down with my husband and I said, okay, we're going to launch this presale campaign on X date. So we had circled, I think at the time it was October 1st, and I was laid off at the end of July. I thought that that would be enough time to do all of the things that needed to be done to launch this campaign. And I actually think we got pretty close. We launched on October 16th. So that was the first thing I did. I set a goal and said I was going to hold myself accountable to a certain timeframe. And then I just started hitting the phones. I mean by phone, I mean email. But really just reaching out to anyone I knew that had started a business, anyone that I knew who had any experience in manufacturing, because I knew that that would be a pretty significant hurdle to clear, was finding who would produce the garments, or the products. And yeah, from there just- I'll never forget, it was along that journey that someone gave me the advice of don't ever leave the meeting without asking for two or three recommendations for additional people to talk to. So then that tree just sort of grew very organically. And just was really curious. And I feel so lucky at the time in which I started my business because it was at the height of COVID, there were so many virtual resources available for women, in particular, starting new businesses. So I attended countless free webinars, and people were so generous with their time, willing to take a half an hour, forty-five minutes here and there. And I'm not sure if I were to repeat that today that those resources would still be available. So there was a lot of luck involved.

Jen Lyttle  26:09

I have a question. Did the product itself come to you just organically, this is the problem I need to solve now?

Jill Apgar  26:16

Yeah.

Jen Lyttle  26:16

Or did it go through phases of business plans and ideas of a company?

Jill Apgar  26:22

Um, secret, I don't have a business plan. That's funny, but it's the truth. So the product is a result of a problem I had. So my husband and I adopted our daughter, Cora, in 2018. And she was born with a full head of thick, curly hair, beautiful hair, but she was sleeping on normal cotton crib sheets and waking up with frizzy knots. And there's not much you can do to care for newborns hair at that age, it's not like you could fill it with product. I couldn't put a bonnet on her. Simultaneously, I had started sleeping on silk pillowcases for my own hair and skin, and I was loving the results that I was seeing. And I sort of had that lightbulb moment, oh, I will just buy her silk crib sheets. And my problem will be solved. But they were really hard to find. And when I did find them, I didn't either resonate with the brand, or I didn't like the aesthetic of them. And I was complaining about this to a friend who was like, "Jill, you do this for a living. You are a merchant who takes product and makes it and gets it to customers." And I said, "you're right, that is what I do for a living." So I made some phone calls and wound up sourcing a fabric, had some samples made here locally in Columbus using a crib sheet pattern that we found on Google. Over time refined the fit, I worked with a small batch manufacturer here in Columbus, they're amazing. They were so helpful. Got the fit perfect. I had solved my problem. But alas, I went back to work. And I thought great, I've solved my problem. Maybe one day this will turn into a business but probably not right now. So then fast forward to July 2021, I was laid off. I had done that product development and that research. And also, by the way, proved that the product would last because I had been using it in real time for all of those months.

Callan Harrington  28:16

Yeah. So you built this for yourself. You weren't even planning to start a business when this first started?

Jill Apgar  28:21

Correct. I sort of knew that maybe one day it could- if I had this problem, maybe other people had this problem, and-

Jen Lyttle  28:28

Of course they do.

Jill Apgar  28:29

-they'd turn it into a business. But yeah, I'd put that all on ice when I went back to work.

Jen Lyttle  28:34

I think I told you when we were chatting on the phone, a couple of weeks ago or a week ago now, my son who's now two almost, this month.

Jill Apgar  28:42

I love that age.

Jen Lyttle  28:43

You cannot do their hair

Jill Apgar  28:45

No.

Jen Lyttle  28:45

Forget it. I mean, he as soon as he sees me pull, like the brush out, just loses his mind. Doesn't. But to your point, if you just had a pillowcase or the sheet that does the work for- not does the work for you, but keeps your work intact. Just overnight.

Jill Apgar  29:01

It's so helpful.

Jen Lyttle  29:02

It is. That's quite amazing.

Jill Apgar  29:04

That is the sweetest age.

Jen Lyttle  29:07

Ummm...

Jill Apgar  29:08

At least for me. We like that. I have all sorts of opinions.

Jen Lyttle  29:13

We'll see. Yeah, we'll definitely get back to you on that. Yeah, having a two year old son is way different than a daughter, I think, for sure. But-

Jill Apgar  29:22

I hear that.

Jen Lyttle  29:22

I'll get back to you. (laughs)

Callan Harrington  29:25

So what were some of the biggest challenges that you've had as you're growing this?

Jill Apgar  29:29

Well, being a first time small business owner has been a challenge just because I don't know what I don't know. And I've been genuinely pleasantly surprised at how open and generous the founder community is. There's so many resources, and everyone for the most part is willing to help each other. But there's just not knowing what to do next has been probably the biggest like macro challenge. And then there have been smaller specific challenges along the way, like financing it. How do we pay for the inventory? Because we're an inventory heavy business. So we need to put all that capital upfront before we sell it. So fine tuning things like cashflow. I also launched my business and started advertising during probably like the worst possible time to start advertising on social media during the iOS update of 2021. And so you watch the graph of like customer acquisition costs going up into the left and your conversions are going down. That's not what you want to see. So figuring out how to right size that. In our case, we wound up leaning heavily into organic, and word of mouth, and things like soliciting reviews, and providing rewards for those reviews, and more organic channels of marketing. And then raw material costs going up. And I had to find a new manufacturer, because I felt like if I don't, I didn't have a business, or at least not one that was profitable. So there have been those more specific challenges along the way.

Callan Harrington  31:06

Tell us a little bit more about that organic marketing, what- when you say- How are you doing that? What has proven effective? How are you doing? And how did you kind of go and guess and check on a lot of these things?

Jill Apgar  31:15

Yeah, the single most effective channel for Coco Beans is in-person. So even though we're a digitally native business, I've done pop up events in the Columbus area. And even when I don't convert on a conversation, when a customer comes into my pop up booth, they hear about my brand, they tell someone else about my brand, they follow us on social media. And so that it's sort of that flywheel starts moving. And so, though most of my transactions happen digitally, there's so much value in that in-person connection in so many ways. So I just shared with you like they share with someone else. So there's that word of mouth component. There's also the content creation, some of my most engaging pieces of content on social have been just sharing what the pop ups look like, videos of people interacting at the pop ups, videos of the product at the pop ups. So that in-person piece of the business has proven to be much more valuable and was probably the biggest surprise, in terms of my marketing efforts.

Callan Harrington  32:21

I would have never guessed.

Jen Lyttle  32:22

Your product is tangible too, right? So you have it in-hand.

Jill Apgar  32:24

Yes. You're holding it, you're touching it.

Jen Lyttle  32:26

You can touch it, feel it, see how it would work.

Jill Apgar  32:28

Exactly. And the storytelling piece. It's a chance for you to connect with a customer, for them to really understand who I am, why I developed this product, and to feel the product. And the product, in some cases, speaks for itself. You touch the pajamas and they're so soft, so luxurious. And then they-

Jen Lyttle  32:47

You probably see a mom beelining to you and your pop ups?

Jill Apgar  32:50

Yeah, exactly.

Jen Lyttle  32:52

I love that.

Callan Harrington  32:53

So, I would have never guessed this in a million years. That that would have driven even just the- whether it's newsletter signups, or Instagram followers, or whatever that may be. That's really interesting. So how do you prep for these pop ups? What does that look like? Is this at, you know, I'm gonna say random things, like the Columbus Art Fest? Or is this you're renting out one of the buildings in Short North or something like that? What does that look like?

Jill Apgar  33:18

Yeah, so my first pop up was actually in collaboration with the Columbus Fashion Alliance. And that was another sort of lucky break. We had a space at Easton for eight weeks during holiday season. And so I learned so much about in-person selling. And at the time, our product assortment was very narrow. This was holiday of '21. So I was only selling silk crib sheets and silk pillowcases. And bedding is a tough sell in person because it's just not the type of thing that you necessarily buy on an impulse. It's usually something that's a little bit more planful and stems from a specific need versus that impulsive "oh, I want it, I'm going to buy it" moment. And so I learned a lot about that. I learned about staffing. I learned about how to tell my story in a way that is effective in the, call it, sixty seconds you have to interact with a customer in person, to catch their attention. So that was the first pop up I did, and since then I've done the Dublin Market, which actually happens right here at Bridge Park. That's been probably our most productive market. Grandview Hop in Grandview has been another really successful market for us.

Callan Harrington  34:32

That's really cool. I would have never guessed taking kind of that offline and how that can increase your kind of your online presence just in general.

Jen Lyttle  34:39

Would you ever open a retail store now with that eight week experience and everything that you're doing in person or is that a different beast?

Jill Apgar  34:47

Absolutely. I would love to open a brick and mortar store. I think I see it more doubling as a showroom and office space. So a little bit less traditional, strictly retail. But yeah, I would absolutely love to open up a brick and mortar store. I think that brick and mortar is by no means dead. Customers love to touch and feel product, especially something like a textile.

Jen Lyttle  35:10

Yep.

Callan Harrington  35:11

Yeah. I like that Bonobos Experience. The Bonobos Experience is awesome. This is why I buy 99% of everything I own from Bonobos.

Jill Apgar  35:18

I love that!

Jen Lyttle  35:18

I was going to say, that came full circle. That makes total sense.

Callan Harrington  35:21

Yeah, I love it because I can get everything, I can knock it all out. And then I'll come back in a year. And I'll do the same thing over again.

Jen Lyttle  35:27

But for shopping for children, though that is- you are intentfully or intently going out and getting things for your children. Or baby registries, you are intently adding things to a registry. So when you're out shopping at let's say Easton, and you're going around, I need a baby gift, that makes so much sense. Or I'm expecting, or my child needs this, and seeing it there makes so much sense.

Jill Apgar  35:53

Yep. And if we can get on a registry, that is the holy grail, because it almost guarantees a conversion at some point in a customer's journey.

Jen Lyttle  36:01

Amazing.

Callan Harrington  36:03

So what comes next for you?

Jill Apgar  36:04

What's next? We just launched our newest product category, the blankets, which I think will definitely help juice some of that gifting conversions. I see the product assortment as pretty well rounded for now. And I want to just be the best at bedding and pajamas. And really grow those two categories. And take it one day at a time.

Callan Harrington  36:27

I love it. If you can have a conversation with your younger self, what would that conversation be? What advice would you give your younger self?

Jill Apgar  36:35

Gosh, I love this question so much. I think it's progress over perfection. And just remembering that moving one foot in front of the other is better than waiting for something to be perfect. I think Joe, my husband, actually shared a quote with me from Reed Hoffman, that if you're not embarrassed by your first product, you waited too long to launch it. But just that can be applicable to so many scenarios. Just go for it. You're your worst critic. No one's paying as much attention to you as you think they are. Just go for it.

Callan Harrington  37:06

I love it. Jill, thanks for coming on today.

Jill Apgar  37:08

Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun.

Callan Harrington  37:11

Absolutely.

Jill Apgar  37:11

Love it.

Callan Harrington  37:16

I hope you enjoyed Jill and I's conversation. I think in-person events are going to make a big comeback, and will get stronger and stronger in the coming years. If you want to learn more about Jill, you could find her on LinkedIn and Instagram in the show notes. Also, if you like this episode, you could find me on LinkedIn to let me know. And if you really want to support the show, a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify is very much appreciated. Thanks for listening, and I'll see everybody next week.