Matt Farrell - COO at Niobium Microsystems: Succeeding in the Earliest Stages, Evaluating Potential Employees, and Creating Work/Life Alignment

Matt Farrell  00:00

I always say from a strategy perspective, is the first rule is don't die. If you can stay in that fight long enough to find product market fit, to find sales, to find distribution, whatever your product is, then you have a chance.

Callan Harrington  00:16

You're listening to That Worked, a show that breaks down the careers of top founders and executives and pulls out those key items that led to their success. I'm your host, Callan Harrington, founder of Flashgrowth, and I couldn't be more excited that you're here. Welcome back, everyone to another episode of That Worked. This week, I'm joined by Matt Farrell. Matt is the COO at Niobium Microsystems, a trusted hardware design company developing high performance micro electronic components to enable the secure collection, processing, and distribution of critical data. Matt is a multi time founder and early stage executive. Before the startup world, Matt was a coach for the University of Dayton men's basketball team. And later, the assistant athletic director at the University of Dayton. This conversation flew by. One of the things that we talked about quite a bit was how Matt's background of coaching and being part of a basketball program that is very competitive at very high level, how that impacted his business career. And in particular, how that impacted his career within startups. And I know sports analogies get used quite a bit in business. But I thought that Matt brought a totally different take on this. And one of the things that became really apparent to me was, I never realized how similar working in an early stage company is to playing or coaching at a high level. The pressure is really high, the team aspect, all of those different things. And I thought it was really interesting hearing Matt walk us through that. We also talked about how to evaluate potential employees and what to expect in those earliest stages of a company. Matt has a ton of experience here. And you'll hear this pretty quickly into the show. He's done this over and over again, at these really, really, really early stages, and I thought it was super interesting. Now the part that I found the most interesting was Matt's take on aligning your work life and personal life. And I use the word 'aligning' in particular, as opposed to 'balance.' And we've had a few different takes on this subject. And one of the most common themes is that each guest has their own unique viewpoint on it. And I thought that Matt's was really interesting. I personally feel that it's really good advice for founders and anyone working at an early stage company. Because the reality is, it's very different than an already established company. That doesn't mean it's better or worse; it's just different. And I thought it was really interesting. So with that, let's just jump right into it. Matt, welcome to the show. I'm excited to have you on here today.

Matt Farrell  03:20

Yeah, I appreciate you having me on, man. This is gonna be fun.

Callan Harrington  03:23

So I'm really excited because of your sports background. You've got a lot of experience in early stage companies, founding companies. But you started out as a D1 college basketball coach, is that right?

Matt Farrell  03:36

Yeah, that's exactly right. It was a childhood dream to coach college basketball. And I was fortunate to do it, as well as being super fortunate to do it at my alma mater, the University of Dayton.

Callan Harrington  03:48

How did that impact your career as a whole?

Matt Farrell  03:51

In countless ways, is the short answer. I would say the one thing is in that profession, and all sports really, right sports at a high level, results are binary, it's wins and losses, it's more points or fewer points, at the end of the set period of time that that contest is going on. I think that creates a level of kind of competitive fire that I haven't been able to find anywhere else. In any industry I've worked in, in any job I have worked, in the world of sports, winning and losing is clear. In industry, no matter what industry you're in, results are relative, right? If you put 10% to the bottom line, why didn't you put 11% to the bottom line? Right? If you hit your sales target, why didn't you beat it by 5%? Right? Everything is relative to the success or the failure that you experienced. And in sports, it's not relative. It is someone wins and someone loses. And that creates a level of, like I said, competitive fire. It requires you to take a mindset and an approach every day, that is around positioning for the best possibility of success. So what are we doing from a preparation perspective? What are the processes we're putting in place to ensure that the likelihood of success is higher? How are we assessing the competition, right? The competitive landscape or the opponent. Those are the things that you do when it is win and lose. I win or I lose, and therefore, you get the other outcome. The level of preparation, the level of meticulous planning, that goes into it, are very high. I would also say that the other piece of that is, you become great at understanding the resources at your disposal. In sports, it's what are the players we're putting on the field or the system we're putting in place? And how does that match up to the opponent, but it's always an internal look first, to say, what do we have at our disposal? And how can we change the pieces of this puzzle to increase that likelihood of success? So I would say that those are the two things, is preparation/strategy, and kind of people and resource management. And I think that those two concepts do transcend industry, regardless of how success is determined. Those things are foundational, and have been probably the biggest impact on me professionally, in my growth and development, as a leader, as a father, as a husband, in the understanding how can I take all those learnings and apply them differently.

Callan Harrington  06:32

One of the things I'm super curious about, given what you just said, I think the thing that stuck out to me the most of that was there's a you either you win, or you lose. It doesn't matter, the reality is, nobody looks at the end of the day, did we win by one point? Or did we win by thirty? Or if you did, like, okay, this team's just unstoppable. But if it's the championship, you don't care if you win by one or thirty. Doesn't matter. Do you think that that's what drew you to startups? Because the reality is, in a really early stage startup, it's pretty win-loss, and the loss is no more money, the company's done. Do you think that that's what drew that to you? Or what was it that drew you to early stage startups?

Matt Farrell  07:15

Yeah, that's a great question. I think there's a lot of it. One, I think it's high intensity, right? And college athletics have that high intensity mindset, right? I don't think most people realize how hard student athletes and staffs work, you are on call 24/7, 365, to the folks that you're accountable to, which are your teammates. And I think that that high intensity, highly competitive approach definitely does find- there are aspects of it that are very prevalent in early stage companies. One of the things that, whether I'm operationally active in an early stage company, or I'm advising an early stage company, either formally or informally, the one thing I always say from a strategy perspective, is the first rule is don't die. If you can stay in that fight long enough to find product market fit to find sales, to find distribution, whatever your product is, then you have a chance. In sports, it's just showing up for the game. Right? It's when that ball gets tipped off, or that ball gets kicked off, tipped up or kicked off, right? That's when you have a chance. If you don't show up, ready to compete at a high level, you don't have a chance to win. And in early stage companies, it's don't die. Give yourself a chance. So yeah, I definitely think there's a lot of that. And that's a great catch on your part.

Callan Harrington  08:39

Especially if you're raising capital. If you're raising capital, in this market, we're under a tighter microscope than ever, there has to be traction there, even at the seed stage or in pre seed stage, people would need to see some sort of traction across the board. It doesn't mean those rounds aren't happening, but it's just it feels like it's happening at a much earlier level, where you need to show real traction. So when you left college sports, just in general, you know, one of the themes that I kind of looked at throughout your career was, you're on a lot of founding teams. Did I see that correctly? You're on three different founding teams. Is that right?

Matt Farrell  09:17

Yeah. I found myself, yeah, early in a handful of ventures. Yeah. And I think, yeah, definitely. I feel like part of my career, and I think what you learn, what I was fortunate to learn was, I was fortunate to be able to be thrown at a lot of different problems in every step along the way, whether that was back to college athletics, or my time, my first job out of college athletics at Wynn Supply, or any of the early stage venture backed companies that I've been been fortunate to be part of, is when you are on those early teams, you need a broad generalist skill set. And that is something that has always resonated with me. I derive a great deal of personal satisfaction and joy from working across a business. And in those early founding teams that I've been part of, we all had to wear multiple hats. I even joke today, I had a new employee start yesterday. And in kind of onboarding, she's like, "so Matt, what exactly is inside your scope of your responsibility?" I joke that I own some of the strategy results of the business, I own some of the business development results, I own some of the operational results across HR and finance and legal. And I'm also the janitor, and I'm the barista, and when I need to be, I can wear whatever other hat the business needs. For me, it is kind of a bias for action. Like I said, joy and satisfaction at work are a big thing for me. Where I find great joy and satisfaction in the- why I find it working across the business is because I'm able to produce results at a regular cadence, right? So when I need that kind of satisfaction moment, my bias is to just go do. I have to keep myself in check at times, right? To make sure that I'm still operating at a strategic level, right? And I don't jump into the weeds too often. But I definitely have that kind of bias for action, doer mentality. Being a generalist by nature, I think being curious about various aspects of the business and learning into things that you might be uncomfortable at, is one of the things that I personally love.

Callan Harrington  11:24

You know, and it's one of those things, in the early stages of a company, if you are somebody that is really curious, you're going to have- it never stops, right? There's endless new things you're going to learn and dive into. And as the company grows, that ends up being the opposite, right? You need to specialize a little bit more, which makes it tricky, if you're wired that way, which I, one hundred per cent, am. But one thing I want to drill down a little bit more on is, you went early, early stage. And when I say early, early stage, I think anything pre product market fit is early, early stage. And what you're trying to accomplish is more, is there a real problem here? Is there what I've heard called 'problem market fit.' Why that early? What is it about that really early stage? Because a lot of times in that stage, it can be we're doing all these things and we can't get traction anywhere, and it feels really frustrating. So, not only do you have to be comfortable going into tunnel knowing there might not be light on the other side, but you're building the initial tunnel. What draws you to that specifically?

Matt Farrell  12:30

Yeah, I think it definitely has roots back to some of the stuff I've talked about before, right? Is when results are binary, you are kind of stuck in a mode of trying to control the uncontrollable, which is a spiral you can't find yourself in very long. So you have to take a step back out of it and say, strategically, what am I trying to accomplish? And what resources are at my disposal? And how do I marry those two things together? And I think that that is ultimately the early stage moments that you're talking about. Where I do think that's a great analogy, or it's a great terminology, is trying to find 'problem market fit.' And it's understanding, who is the team that we have? What are the ideas that are at the table? What's the technology or product that we feel like we have a unique advantage on? And marrying that up against: where are the opportunities for this in the market? And I have spent most of the last you know half a decade working in kind of the fed tech, defense tech transition commercialization world, where there might be a specific warfighter need that you might be able to drive non dilutive capital into advance the technology. But if you don't find broader opportunities for that technology in both commercial and defense markets, or commercial and federal markets, in general, you're going to have a product that doesn't solve a a true long term need. And understanding that is where I found I've been fortunate to work with super smart technical folks, super smart demand side sales folks, who understand the customer need, and marrying those two things together to find what that solution looks like, has been a blast. I've learned a ton about things that I never would have found myself working on.

Callan Harrington  14:12

What have you found to be the biggest challenges of that really early stage? Personally, I'm actually more curious on the personal challenges, because I think a lot of the main challenges are obvious, right? Like, okay, we've got to see, will anybody buy this thing? But you're like, personally going through that?

Matt Farrell  14:29

Yeah, I think there's a lot. I would say that it's- I don't love the word 'balance,' right? Because I think that the word 'balance' is a relative term. And what that looks like is different for everyone. But I think it is creating the right level of boundaries, where other areas, where you're trying to strive personally, whether that is from a faith perspective, from a kind of health and wellness perspective, from being an amazing husband or wife, to being an amazing mother or father, and finding those ways to achieve at a high level across all of all of those areas of life, I think it's one of the biggest personal challenges. And it is one where, when you're in that early stage, it is very much back to the- we said it before, in college athletics, like you're on 24/7 to those you're accountable to. When you're in the fight at an early stage founding small team level, trying to find a use for a product, a company, a service, you know, you are always on. And you always have to be thinking. And I work best, where my brain, even in a passive state, always has those thoughts about what is the business need? And how am I drawing learnings from other areas of my life, while also creating those boundaries to not let other areas of my life kind of be the sacrifice to success?

Callan Harrington  15:51

All right, so you just prompted a spicy hot take here. We'll see how this one goes.

Matt Farrell  15:55

Okay.

Callan Harrington  15:56

That was coined one episode ago, but I don't think I'm going to be able to stop it. So a big debate that's out there is work-life balance, right. And I think work-life balance is probably, even in the startup ecosystem, come up more than I've ever heard it get brought up. Do you think that you can achieve work-life balance in an early stage startup? I have my opinion. I will share my opinion on this. But I'd love to hear from you.

Matt Farrell  16:25

Yeah, I think my most immediate answer is yes. And my yes goes back to balance is a relative term. And I would maybe reframe the question for whether it's an employee, a colleague, a friend, who's kind of struggling with that, or debating that personally for themselves, is it's not about balance. It's about happiness, or joy and satisfaction, right? At work, I derive a great deal of joy and satisfaction from work. Many of my hobbies happen to have ties to areas where I can monetize my time, my effort, my energy. So to me balance isn't the question. It's more a question of joy and satisfaction, because balance is relative. And if it's always through the lens of time or attention, I think you will always view a trade off as a negative thing. So I think reframing that, I think is where maybe we can find a level of agreement, or a level of understanding with each other. Or, as you're battling that, either with someone advising you, or internally, then I think you can get over that hurdle. Maybe easier. It's not that this glass, you know, is half full, and to pour it into something else, I lose something here. To me, it's the sum of the two parts coming together that I haven't really lost anything. I don't know if that makes sense.

Callan Harrington  17:53

Well, I mean, actually, if I took that last example, in particular, it's, okay, the glass is half empty. Well, if your goal is to drink a lot more water per day, that's actually a big positive. But if I paraphrase what you're saying, if I hear you saying is, it depends on what your goals are. If your goals are to share equal 50% of time at work, 50% of time with family, and you're spending more time at work, well then no. Then that's going to be really tough. But if your goals are, if you get a lot of satisfaction out of working, and your hobby's aligned with what that is, and although the overall time may be more, but you don't feel that. You're excited, you're happy, you're motivated, you're energized, then it is aligned with what your goal is. So it's not so much about balance, but it's about alignment, if I'm hearing you correctly.

Matt Farrell  18:39

I think that's a great way to way to say it. A quick example I'll give is an area where at times I struggle professionally, is with that bias for action, doer mentality. I struggle with patience. I think a lot of us do. I have young kids. So how do I get better professionally? Well, I also love spending time with my kids. They also play sports. I love sports. I love coaching sports. But coaching three year olds in soccer is an area where my patience is tested on the regular. And I would argue that that to me is finding alignment, finding synergies between areas where I need to grow professionally. But I'm also able to do something I love while spending time with my kids, all of which transfers back to find more patience professionally. So to me, it's finding those moments where, whether it's hobbies aligned, family interests, and professional interests align, my hobbies align to my family's interests, all of those things are to me part of how we find happiness, how we find joy, how we find satisfaction in all the areas of our life.

Callan Harrington  19:52

Yeah, I'm gonna circle back to it, so my listeners don't think I dodged the question, but I love the way that you put that. I think that makes total sense and It's not a- Here's what I'll say, if you're an early stage startup, and you want more time with things that don't involve work, it's going to be a struggle. I know we want to say that this can be- I'm not saying you in particular, but a lot of times it's out there it's like: well, yes, you can achieve all of that. No shot, not in a really early stage company, is just not a nine to five job. And that's okay. And it's one of the biggest things, whenever I was recruiting people, telling them, it's like, look, I can't guarantee you exactly what your schedule is going to look like on a day to day basis, because I don't know what my schedule is gonna look like on a day to day basis. As we grow, and we scale this thing, it's going to look different. So I do love what you said. And I think that's so important that you understand that going into that. It sounds really fun and exciting to get into a startup. But if you're going into it with the wrong expectations, you're probably gonna hate it. But there's value in knowing that as well, you know exactly what you don't want. So I love that answer.

Matt Farrell  20:58

Yeah, and I would say- the one other thing I would say, just on that front, I love your perspective on that. I think time is one of the biggest things I struggle with when I hear others try to talk about balance, because time, makes an assumption that there's zero flexibility, right? So I might be willing to put in more on my terms. And that is one piece of it, that to me, that variable, those variables aren't the full picture. If you're only looking at one of those variables, it's not telling the full picture. The second thing I would say, especially in an early stage company, it's not about putting in time, more time. And actually, I would say that across any job. If we're talking about putting in time, we're having the wrong conversation. We should be talking about delivering results. And the results the business needs, or the results of your job, or the results of your expertise are X,Y, and Z. I would argue that if you can do those more efficiently, more effectively, you're more valuable to the organization. It's not that you're putting in more time. But equally as important, I think is your point where, in the early stage mentality, which is what we've talked about at various points in this conversation, is you're always on, you're always accountable, because you're in that fight at all times. And the business needs have demands that are not predictable.

Callan Harrington  22:21

I think you bring up a great and totally fair point, though, in that it is how you spend that time. And this is something that I've struggled with personally, because similar to yourself in the patience, I definitely- I get really excited about something, I want to go after it. Next thing you know, I've got fifty different things that I'm doing. All of those, just like there's gonna be very little traction on any of them, when- Now I've started reading the book Essentialism. Love it, highly recommend it. And I've cut 85% of all that out. And I did realize it did free me up for more time outside of work, because I'm not doing all these other different things. And the things that I am doing are leading to bigger results. So I think that's a totally fair point. So a number of founding teams, it seems like every time that you go in one of these companies, you go right back to founding the next one, is that correct?

Matt Farrell  23:15

It sure looks that way. It sure seems that way.

Callan Harrington  23:20

What's the story on it?

Matt Farrell  23:21

I don't want to keep beating this drum, but like, I love it. And to me, I do get a ton of joy and satisfaction from it. And I love solving problems, producing results. I love building, I love doing, I love growing. Yeah, it gives me an opportunity to learn every single day. It does. So...

Callan Harrington  23:41

When you look at these companies, and the different ones that you are part of, and the different experiences that you have, what were the turning points or some of those defining moments?

Matt Farrell  23:52

It's probably different for each, I would say both season of the business, as well as each company. I think some of the most defining moments that have stuck with me, and I have tried to replicate the next time is building a high quality organization with a highly talented team. I think that that to me is a strategic foundational element. Because if you have a highly talented team and have strong organizational fundamentals, you can stay in that fight long enough, you can increase the likelihood of don't die, because you're resilient enough to find that problem market fit, as you described, or product market fit. I think that that involves everything from strong business fundamentals, bring in more dollars than you spend, make the right decisions, have those levers at your disposal, to lean into spend when you need to, but to also kind of contract or slow spend when something feels like it's stumbling. Understanding that if we have the right people in the organization who are curious, right, who are doers, who are bought in on the vision, then we'll find our way there. And I think it is very much a journey, not a destination to success. And yeah, that is the one thing that I have tried to replicate is I've been really fortunate, even back to my days in college athletics, where team was a big component of it. And doing it with people that you enjoy spending time with, who are super talented, who you can learn from, and who can learn from you, and you can have those shared moments together. I think that's powerful. That's probably one of the things that I think is foundational, and maybe the most important thing I seek out in the earliest stage of a company, as I'm jumping in, is trying to figure out how to build that team, how to build cohesion, how to understand what pieces of the puzzle we've got to tackle this challenge that we've got in front of us.

Callan Harrington  25:56

Can you think of a specific time or specific hire that you made where this was really- it kind of dawned on you, right? You hired this person who's like, whoa, this took us to another level?

Matt Farrell  26:08

Oh, wow. I don't know if I can point to one that took the business to another level. The one that comes to mind as you asked that question was, I did a mock interview with a young woman who I walked out of that mock interview, and I was like, there was something special about her, that I had never walked out of any interview, like, that wowed by who the person was. And I spent the twenty minute drive back to the office, reflecting on why, like, what made that interview different. And I'll share what it was here in a second. But the reason I jumped to that reason, in response to your question was more because it's been foundational for me as I've sought out the next employee to hire, or as I've done coaching with leaders or employees in the organization, is because in my opinion, she exhibited a unique balance of a willingness to tackle any thing that was thrown out her. A, I call it bias for action, a doer mentality of like, I produce results. And she did it in the most thoughtful, strategic manner. And I actually have a whiteboard in front of me. And this wasn't intentional. It was actually to take notes on other things you said. But we flowed pretty good. And I would say, it's hard to see here, maybe, but I would view it as like a triangle, where like that willingness is up top, the yes mentality, the doer execution mode is one of the other ones, and then that strategic think mindset. I think naturally, we as individuals probably sit on one of these lines. To me, that's amazing to understand who you are. This individual perfectly sat directly in the middle of this. It's like she knew her boundaries, she was willing, but also knew her boundaries. She knew when to say no, she produced at a high level, but it wasn't just for the sake of output. It was for the sake of driving a result. She didn't overthink a problem, where it was only strategic. It was a perfect balance of those three things, and I was fortunate enough to hire her. And I walked her through this one day a couple of months in. And it's funny because she didn't view herself directly in the middle. She thought she was on one of the lines. And she said to me in the coaching conversation was like, I struggle with that, because I know where I'm weak. And I'm always trying to overcompensate for my weakness. And I think it's just an amazing awareness for us as individuals, as we interact with those around us, whether we lead those within the organization to always be sensitive to sometimes our greatest strength is our greatest weakness, right if left unchecked. And I think that just back to this kind of analogy of like, who are we in our natural state? We have to work towards that other thing, and be intentional about where we are on that line, and try to draw ourselves and each other, more to that place of kind of synergy, alignment. It's far from perfection, but it's a more perfect state, is what I would say. And it was that moment, in that interview, coming back full circle to your question, where, since that moment, I've always sought out in interviews, in dialogue in conversations in networking, like who is this person? How does that complement where I am in my natural state? And if I'm fortunate enough to hire this person, to come onto our team, how do I help them, coach them, lead them, to a place where they are at their best? And I think that that's just an interesting analogy. It's not a unique concept in any way, right? We talk about it from a market perspective and sales, is you can have it fast, you can have it cheaper, you can have it high quality, pick two, right? I want somebody who's willing to tackle any challenge that's thrown in front of them. I want them to do it really well. Very thoughtful. And I want it done. I want the result produced. Pick two, right? But in fact, we can have all three, if we can give some trade offs, right? So that, to me, was a moment, for me, where it was like that was a defining moment for me as a leader, for me as a guy who loves building teams, and building cohesion around strategy, where we're understanding who we are as individuals, and that young woman taught me more in that mock interview, than she probably even realized.

Callan Harrington  26:17

I love that example. I find it really interesting. And I've got a couple of follow ups on this. The first follow up is, when you think- I love that you said the pick two. This might be another spicy hot take. Two in the show, pretty surprised, but we're gonna roll with it anyway, is do you care more about the results or how well this person fits into the culture? Meaning, would you take a bad culture fit if they produced results every time?

Matt Farrell  31:14

So that's a great question. So I actually start every interview, to level set, that to me an interview is not a one way street. And to me, an interview is relationship building. We are building rapport, we are building trust, and I encourage the person I'm interviewing to look at this conversation and this decision that we both have, through three lenses. First, cultural fit. Do you believe what we're doing? Do you want to live and work the way we work? Do you believe in our values and where we're headed? How do you fit into that? Number two is technical fit. I've been in highly technical companies over the last, you know, five to seven years. So I don't mean technical from the lens of like engineering technical. I mean, through your area of expertise, your domain of excellence. If I was hiring an HR manager, the technical fit would be around their people skills, their people strategy, their HR administration. So technical fit is number two. The third is administrative fit. And I think that that is equally as important. Timing sometimes just doesn't make sense. Right? Compensation. And I mean that not from a base salary perspective. I mean that from true compensation package, right? Sometimes just doesn't align, sometimes the level of the role doesn't work for one party or the other. And I think that each of those are actually equally as important. I think it's really hard, to answer your question directly, I think it's hard to get over cultural fit. You can, for some period of time, overcome that. Some people can adapt to fit in. But back to our natural state as individuals, right? Your greatest strength can be your greatest weakness, if left unchecked, is what I just said. And sometimes someone's greatest strength of I'm a results oriented, I deliver every single time, has a cost. And your greatest strength is a greatest weakness if left unchecked in that regard. So I would say my opinion is culture first. Although all three are important. I think they're all equally important. But if you had to- if you're like, "Matt, you got to make a bet on somebody who will produce results or who is a great culture fit, but you don't know if they're going to produce results all the time." I'm probably making my bet over here.

Callan Harrington  33:45

Yeah.

Matt Farrell  33:46

Your thoughts now. Hot take back to you.

Callan Harrington  33:48

Hot take back to me. I, quite honestly, I never heard it framed- So you know, this is often called the lone wolf, right? And the lone wolf, the biggest challenge about the lone wolf is they produce all the time, they're probably one of the top performers in the company, or the sales team, or whatever that may be. But they're very isolated. And they're not typically going to be a great culture fit, which makes it really tough. It's like, okay, we've got somebody that's producing, we need that production, but what cost is this? And I hadn't heard that. I didn't make the connection of your, you know, your greatest strength, their strength is they produce. If that goes unchecked, they're going to bring in bad customers, they're going to do that at the expense of their teammates and everything else. So I love that connection, may even change my mind on this a little bit, if I'm being totally honest, is I struggle with a lone wolf because I'm so much more on the side of okay, if somebody's coachable may take them way longer to get there. But we're going to try to get there, and if not, we can move them to another part of the company. So to me it's culture first. First, but I will say, in light of what you said, it does make me rethink that a bit and think like, well, maybe this might be worth taking a chance. And if I can coach them around, hey, how can we dial it back just, you know, 10% here, and dial this up 10% on being a better team player just in general. Can that work? Possibly. I got a question on this. Did that come from sports?

Matt Farrell  35:31

I think a lot of my thoughts have roots back to that. I think you need different pieces on the court, on the field. Everybody can't be a scorer. Everybody can't be a rebounder. Everybody can't be a pass first individual. So when we build organizations, and this is where I would go back to say, it's hard to answer that question in isolation. If I have an amazingly collaborative organization that I would insert that lone wolf into, I'm probably okay. Right? Because everyone else will continue to kind of meet them more than halfway, right? So all the pieces of the puzzle still have to come together. And that's building team, that's building those dynamics. And I think that just from a basketball standpoint, I think there's been a lot of great examples in the history of the highest performing teams, where we had individuals who knew their role, and they were exceptional in their role. Dennis Rodman, right? Dennis Rodman, that team needed a guy who would rebound and defend, because they had other pieces, they had shooters, they had scores, right, they had guys who can play with pace, what they needed was something very unique for that system, for that team. There's a million examples in sports of that. So it's a matter of understanding the entirety of the landscape, as we figure out what that next piece of the puzzle needs to be, for us to collectively achieve success. So I think it has roots in sports, but that's just where my default is, to find an analogy where I can relate to, because it's also a hobby. It's because it was, you know, my first professional experience, because it's a place where I love, you know, to spend time. Even some of my current professional work still dabbles in sports on the side. I think I am at my best strategically in the technology business that I work in today, because of some of the things that I still dabble in on the on the fringe, right? Because it's a place where I can stretch and exercise my strategic brain in different ways.

Callan Harrington  37:39

Yeah, I love that. And you make such a good point in that, especially when you look at sports at the absolute highest level. And I'll just use Jordan as example. Jordan wasn't a great team player when he first got in the NBA, and then became a much better team player with everybody around him. Phil Jackson had a lot to do with that, of course, as well. And it took a good coach, to bring that all out. And the rest is history, put the pieces together, and everything else. So you're COO of a successful startup? Where does the next level of growth come for you?

Matt Farrell  38:16

That's a great question. And one that I think about a lot. I love learning. This is an industry that I knew very little about. I didn't do any semiconductor hardware work at any point in my entire professional career, when I joined the team at Niobium Microsystems. What I would say is that it goes back to why did I say yes? Which isn't a question you asked. But it's one that I'm going to answer. Because I knew I had a team around me who was strong in their domain. So I was a piece of the puzzle that on the outside maybe didn't fit because I didn't know the industry. But I was an interesting piece that complemented the skills and experience of the the existing team. And we continue to build towards that. We need different pieces of the puzzle during every season of the business. And learning to me is foundational to the success of the teams that I've been part of, right? Evolution of, you know, the stage of company we are. How are we generating revenue? How are we utilizing our resources, not as a constantly evolving piece of our success? That needs to be on the table to be examined every day. So I think about learning, I think about evolution, on a regular basis. For me, for our organization, for our team. It's an area where I've been fortunate to work with people who love learning, and who are great teachers. And that has been where I have been able to learn, is just by being exposed to the brilliance of those around me.

Callan Harrington  39:52

I love that. And I guess the last question on the other side of this is, if you could have a conversation with your younger self, what would that conversation be? What advice would you give them?

Matt Farrell  40:05

You should have prepped me with that question, is the first thing I'll say. That's deep and requires a lot of thought. I would say it this way, I think if you remain fully present in the role that you're in, you will achieve everything you want to achieve professionally with time. I think that goes to just being a learner, being a doer, being willing to say yes, right? Just back to the triangle, is if you are fully present where you are, then the opportunities will present themselves. You need to be intentional about the approach you take to what you say yes to and how you produce those results. And you need to work it out, work hard at it, right? You've got to produce those results. If somebody is counting on you, deliver. And I think you can only truly do that if you are fully present and fully invested in the seat that you're in. That's probably counter to a lot of career advice, but it's one thing that to me, has served me well. And it's one thing that I don't know if I fully understood it earlier in my career, but it's something that I definitely think about very much today. It's like when the right opportunity presents itself, or the right door opens, or the right window opens, like, yeah, it's worth taking a look at. But like you can't be chasing what's next and still fully be present. You can't do both.

Callan Harrington  41:37

Yeah. And if I'm hearing you, it's be fully present. Be very intentional about what you're willing to do. And a theme that's came up here quite a bit, and I totally agree with, is put boundaries around what you are not willing to do. And if you can do that, and hit these different points of the triangle, like you've mentioned, the opportunities are going to come your way. Is that correct?

Matt Farrell  42:02

I think so. That's my belief. That is 100% my belief. Yeah.

Callan Harrington  42:06

I love it. I think it's great advice. Matt, this was a blast, man. This went really fast.

Matt Farrell  42:11

Oh, for sure. Thank you. It did.

Callan Harrington  42:13

Thanks for coming on the show. I loved it.

Matt Farrell  42:15

Good. Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Looking forward to continuing to follow everything you're doing.

Callan Harrington  42:21

I appreciate that, Matt. Thank you.  I hope you enjoyed Matt and I's conversation. I thought Matt's take on work-life alignment was excellent. And it's definitely something that made me think a little bit differently about it. If you want to learn more about Matt, you could find him on LinkedIn in the show notes. Also, if you liked this episode, you could find me on LinkedIn to let me know. And if you really want to support the show, a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify is very much appreciated. Thanks for listening, everybody, and I'll see you next week.