Personal Branding, Content Creation, Managing Stress, and Building Human Connection

Callan Harrington  00:00

You've got over 130,000 TikTok followers. You built that to the point where you could actually leave your corporate job. How nice would it have been to have a million bucks to put towards that?

Sullivan Finlay  00:11

Yeah, yeah. I kind of wish I had preliminary discussions with VCs. But yeah, I mean, that would have been amazing. It would have made the decision a lot easier, something that I agonized over for six to twelve months. But yeah, I think it would have been really nice, but at the same time, I liked that I had to grind and really post day in and day out, really be consistent. Because I think consistency is the main driver of success when it comes to social media. Don’t get me wrong, I would have taken the million bucks, but what was invaluable was just being able to stay dedicated and disciplined throughout the process.

Callan Harrington  00:38

You're listening to That Worked, a show that breaks down the careers of top founders and executives and pulls out those key items that led to their success. I'm your host, Callan Harrington, founder of Flashgrowth, and I couldn't be more excited that you're here. Alright, welcome back, everybody. So I am super excited for this week because we're testing out a new format. This is going to be more of a conversational-style episode. It’s going to be very similar to a Tim Ferriss Random Show or an episode of My First Million where we're going over some topics, and you get a bit of a look into what's going on in our lives in general. So with that, I'm going to introduce our co-host for today, Sullivan Finlay. I've known Sullivan since the pandemic. We've actually been writing comedy together on a weekly basis for the past couple of years, and we were doing improv together online prior to that because Sullivan is out of Chicago. Sullivan, welcome to the show.

Sullivan Finlay  01:39

Callan, thanks for having me. Yeah, like you said, we've known each other since early 2021 when everyone was regularly in boxes online. I'm a writer, comedian, and content creator in Chicago. My background before all that, though, is in accounting. I'm a CPA. I worked first in public accounting and then in big tech. So I'm excited to dive into some of those things and share a little bit more.

Callan Harrington  02:03

So for our listener, Sullivan recently made the jump to full-time working for himself as a comedian, content creator, and writer. So a lot of what we're discussing today is going to be based on that. Alright, so to kick this off, I have this topic I heard the other day. I heard this from a client. Founders are raising capital, like an early round, a pre-seed, so a couple hundred thousand to a million-dollar round, putting that all towards building their personal brand, disguising that essentially as marketing for the company. And then the business is essentially winding down, not raising any more capital. And then they built their personal brand, and they start selling courses.

Sullivan Finlay  02:43

Yeah, the first thought I have on that is, like, that kind of sounds like the dream. It’s like, yeah, if I could just build my personal brand and say goodbye to the actual business. No, I think that's interesting to me because there's just been a rise, especially since COVID, especially since social media apps like TikTok or more short-form content has grown. And with that, people and creators’ personal brands have grown. I think that has started to expand into business and into business leaders, where it’s like, “Oh, okay, this can actually be a business, this can be something that drives revenue, where maybe that's actually what I want to do, versus the business itself.” Now, the impacts of that on jobs and on the other areas of the business, the product itself, like, that’s interesting, probably a whole other thread, but yeah.

Callan Harrington  03:39

So, and I mean, you know this, I thought about that. I started out as a consulting company, and I invested quite a bit into ghostwriters and then started writing all of my own content. And I really thought I did want to go that pure business, content creator route, selling courses, all of those different pieces. I don't know. For me, I realized I needed to build a business that can run without me, and that would just never be the case there. And I think I found where I was getting the most traction were in topics that I had a lot of experience in and could talk about but just didn’t want to talk about all day long. And that's ultimately what did it for me. You've got over 130,000 TikTok followers. You built that to the point where you could actually leave your corporate job. How nice would it have been to have a million bucks to put towards that?

Sullivan Finlay  04:33

Yeah, yeah. I kind of wish I had preliminary discussions with VCs. But yeah, I mean, that would have been amazing. It would have made the decision a lot easier, something that I agonized over for six to twelve months, probably, over whether to leave or not. But yeah, I think it would have been really nice, but at the same time, I liked that I had to grind and really post day in and day out, really be consistent. Because I think consistency is the main driver of success as it pertains to social media. And so that just allowed me to really hone my own voice and put out so much crap, honestly, early on, that just like nobody liked. But eventually, some people liked it. Eventually, a lot of people liked it. And then you still have ones that flop, and things that don't do well. But it's just really that duration of probably a year and a half or so where I was really grinding on it allowed me to just really build my voice and figure that out. So don’t get me wrong, I would have taken the million bucks, but what was invaluable was just being able to stay dedicated and disciplined throughout the process.

Callan Harrington  05:48

Yeah, that makes so much sense because it really is like, you just have to get stuff out there if you want to do this. You have to see if you like that grind. Because the reality is, it is a grind. You see people that have built it up to millions of followers, and you think, “Oh, man, this would be the life.” Well, that took a long time to get there for 99% of people. And if you don't like that grind, I don't know how you could do that.

Sullivan Finlay  06:11

Right. Yeah, it’s like, early on too, I would go hard where I was posting like three or four times a day on TikTok or Instagram, and that's not at all sustainable. That’s where you definitely need a team around you. But by just putting so much stuff out there, I learned more quickly how to edit more quickly, what my voice was, and more quickly the things I actually liked creating. So that was really valuable. And then it’s like, once I was able to slow it down to maybe once a day during the week or things like that, then it’s like, okay, this is a comfortable rhythm where I like creating at this level, I like writing for this amount of content. So like you said, it’s such a grind.

Callan Harrington  06:50

Yeah. So anyway, that was something I saw. I was like, okay, we gotta bring this one up. What you got?

Sullivan Finlay  06:55

Netflix is actually opening what they call Netflix Houses. I don't know if you've seen this at all. They’re opening basically these experiential complexes where they’ll have different themed experiences that pertain to their shows. So they'll have a Bridgerton area, or like one example I saw in this article is for Squid Game, where they have the glass bridge part of the show, where you can walk across the glass bridge and you could fall through it or you could make it to the other side, kind of thing. And so it’s really interesting because, as we’ve seen Netflix evolve from, you know, like a DVD service early on, it’s cool to kind of see what this next thing could be if it succeeds as just another revenue stream beyond streaming itself.

Callan Harrington  07:38

I love that your first go-to example was Bridgerton, guilty pleasure. I’ll pretend I don’t like it, and then I’ll just watch it all the way through, right?

Sullivan Finlay  07:51

Yeah, no, it would be intense. I think it is interesting to the point you just had of in-person stuff coming back. Before I was doing comedy full-time, I was in real estate accounting, and it’s interesting to see, kind of, out of the pandemic, how real estate footprints would shrink, and you’re still seeing that a little bit. But then slowly but surely, over time, real estate footprints have started to pick back up. It doesn’t look like it did before, but we are seeing the value placed on human connection. And I think for a while, we took that for granted, and we just got used to, like you said earlier, the boxes on a screen. But now I think companies are realizing, like, okay, this is actually where value lies, not just in the dollar, but also in just the human experience, which ultimately drives, I guess, the bottom line.

Callan Harrington  09:41

To that point as well, one of the hot topics at the founder dinner about a month ago, the founders that were there, the question came up, and this was probably the hottest topic of the night, and it’s a topic that’s been discussed ad nauseam: in-person versus remote. And the question was coming from new founders that were just starting their hiring process. And this was largely tech companies, but it was services businesses as well, and the experienced founders, the founders that were much further along the path, let's say, you know, Series B, Series C level, almost unanimously said, “If I could do it again, or if I were in your shoes, I would 100% build in-person and stick to that for as long as humanly possible.” Wow. So I was kind of surprised to hear that, and a lot of them are at the size where they’re remote now, because they had to be remote due to the pandemic, and it’s just too hard to unwind that unless you’re one of the Amazons, Salesforces, Microsofts, or whomever, like, you don’t have that power to pull everybody back into the office. And I just thought it was interesting, and it's something that I’ve definitely been thinking about as well. I’m kind of curious, in your world, TikTok, everything like that, that dominates a lot within the comedy space, are you seeing a push back to in-person at all?

Sullivan Finlay  11:00

I think so. I think there's more and more demand for in-person shows and stuff like that. What’s cool is you’ve seen creators and comedians who have leveraged the platform of TikTok or Instagram and YouTube, in some cases, to really propel what they're doing on stage, even beyond. There are a lot of stand-up, crowd work videos out there, that's also an example. But I mean, even people who created online, where there was then a demand for, “Hey, I want to see this in person.” I did a show with a friend in February who blew up late last year, and then she’s also an improviser, an actor, great character artist. She has a couple of characters online, one in particular, that have done really well. And it was cool to be on that show with her, because she would do a couple of different characters. She saved the character from online that had done really well for last, and she came into the theater as the host was talking, doing her bit, and kind of started talking in character, just even walking through the crowd. Then she and I went up on stage together, and it was crazy how the people went just bonkers for this character they'd only previously seen online. So I think there's now, especially in the character acting space and the sketch space, the desire to see that in person, which I think has been cool, because before that didn’t exist. It’s like, before you could put up a sketch show with friends, you could improvise with friends, and things I still do and really enjoy. But there’s now this platform that allows you to do that and maybe even drive more people to come and see you.

Callan Harrington  12:38

Yeah, I could totally see that. And it gets back to that personal brand that we talked about earlier, because the same thing happens. And I’m sure you get this all the time when somebody just sees you out. I was getting it just from the LinkedIn presence I built, like, “Hey, I feel like I know you,” and I haven't, you know, I haven't talked to some of these people for or I don’t know them at all, and they just followed my content. But you do build a relationship with your audience, 100%.

Sullivan Finlay  13:03

1100%, and it's really cool because there are times where, yeah, I'll be out, and somebody will be like, “Hey, are you?” And usually, it’s like, “that guy from TikTok” or something like that. And it's a cool experience because, at first, I didn’t know how to deal with those, just like, “I don't know, I could be. There are a million people on that app.” But then quickly learned the easiest thing is they’re probably only approaching you if you are who they actually think you are. So then it’s just like, “Yes,” and then it's like getting to build that connection, be like, “Well, tell me about yourself. What do you do?” And so that's been a really cool, very strange at first, but really cool experience to connect with people who are interested in the brand, but also just these different things that you’ve created, which is just really flattering and humbling.

Callan Harrington  13:48

Well, that’s one of the reasons you do it as a founder, in my opinion. It does help separate you because the people that are going to come up to you are typically going to be the people that align with your thoughts, how you approach things. Don’t get me wrong, you can definitely get the opposite side of that. For sure, the negative comments were still the most frustrating thing for me.

Sullivan Finlay  14:15

Yeah, 100%. It gets a little better over time, but it’s definitely the case where it’s like, you have 100 great, very complimentary comments, and one bad one, and you’ll definitely remember the one bad one. What’s fortunate is what I’ve experienced and other creator friends have said too, is the people who come up to you generally don’t hate you. Those people might walk by you and not say anything, and then maybe talk about you behind your back afterward or something. The people that come up to you like what you do, and stuff like that. So that, I haven’t had anyone be aggressive or be like, “I hate what you put out there,” like that. So I think that's a good thing. At least the negative comment-type things or trolls at least don’t exist in real life, at least not yet. I'm sure it will happen.

Callan Harrington  14:59

Do you block the trolls, or do you let the trolls roll? 

Sullivan Finlay  15:04

I generally let the trolls roll just because I do believe that there is value in them voicing something. Now, if they're usually trolling just to troll, it's what they do. They’re all over the internet, so maybe it's not actually their opinion, but they’re just trying to get you, kind of thing. But to me, I think there’s value in hearing if you like something, great, if you don't like something, that’s also really helpful feedback. So there are times where I'll see comments like, I did a video where I was a dad character, and there was a comment, “Full commitment down to the forehead,” because I have a massive forehead. Comments like that are just hilarious to me, like that does not impact how I view myself. I know I have a landing strip of a forehead, but I think it’s funny. I'll even lean into it and reply to the comment or something. Whereas if somebody really attacks the punchline or joke or something like that, that hurts more, because then they’re attacking what you’re doing. And so every once in a while, if something’s just very vulgar, if anything is racist or homophobic or anything like that, I'll just delete it. This isn’t happening in my comment section, but things like that, where they’re just poking fun at my appearance, I'm like, whatever. Let them roll. You know, it’s funny to me.

Callan Harrington  16:15

It is funny because I looked at your comments, and it’s like, man, it's the wild west on Instagram or TikTok, whereas on LinkedIn, people are usually more civil about it because it is tied to their business account. Although, you got professional trolls on there as well.

Sullivan Finlay  16:32

Yeah, which is funny because it’s like, well, what is your job? You’re on LinkedIn, you're on this platform doing something. I don’t know what you’re doing, and you’re trolling on LinkedIn. Maybe for trolls too, it's the whole issue of supply and demand. Maybe there's less supply, and thus more demand for trolls. In that world. I have no idea the economics of trolls. That’s my next book title for sure. Make my next book. I mean, first book.

Callan Harrington  16:58

Okay, switching gears a little bit. What is something new that you're working through?

Sullivan Finlay  17:02

One thing I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, like you mentioned, I left my job in corporate America to do comedy full-time, and I think since then, I've learned just how busy a stage of life it is. For background, I'm getting married in two months. My fiancée and I just got a puppy. There are a lot of life things going on, and then, you know, I quit my job. That happened. We're moving, all this. So one thing I've been working on and learning is just setting aside time each week to have really intentional thought around long-term strategy. For me, I'm somebody who goal-sets at the beginning of every year. I'll check in on goals quarterly, revise where I need to, that kind of thing. I enjoy doing that, and I feel like I'm okay at it, but I can very easily get bogged down in the minutiae of day-to-day and just getting things done. So later today, I have an hour, hour and a half scheduled for this where I just want to think through, okay, this is what I'm doing now in terms of content, in terms of things on stage, things I'm writing. But what does this look like, both financially and in terms of my goals for the medium or long term? And that's really allowed me to be more clear-headed, even about the present and what I'm working on now. So I think that's been the main thing that has really come to the forefront, as far as just allowing me to work through that and learn in the moment as well.

Callan Harrington  18:24

I’m curious, have you thought about using any of the strategic goal-planning methods for business for a comedy career? And what I mean by that is like an Entrepreneur Operating System, if you’ve ever heard of it. Essentially, you’re coming up with your 10-year plan, your 3-year plan, your 1-year plan, and then your quarterly rocks. And those quarterly rocks are two to seven key items. I found when the business is really small, you can really only focus on one of those at a time, but it does lead into those bigger goals. And I use it for my business. I use it for my personal life, maybe just because that was how I was wired to do it. I think it’s critical in any type of business, period. But the earlier you put that in any business, I think it helps so much compared to when we weren’t using them in the startups I was at and the ones where we were using it. It made a big difference.

Sullivan Finlay  19:13

Yeah, I love that. I think that would be really helpful going into this. I created what I call a guiding document where it’s just like, “Okay, this is what really, at my core, I am, and this is what I value.” I know online, I make fun of core values and stuff a lot, but truly, these are the things I actually value. This is the purpose behind this that’s outside of myself, kind of getting to the Jim Collins hedgehog concept. This is what I'm deeply passionate about. This is what I can be the best in the world at. This is what drives my economic engine. So there's kind of high level, like, this is where I want to go. But I think what you're talking about would be really helpful as far as the different targets and how I get there.

Callan Harrington  19:56

I think the hedgehog principle is so important. Here’s where I struggle because I also like the Rick Rubin school of thought, where it’s, “I'm going to follow the feeling and see where it goes.” And I think that’s something I didn’t do enough earlier as I was growing my career. And now I’d say I do that and then balance it with pretty strict goal setting, but I’ll definitely pay attention more on, you know, if I get this feeling like this is not the right path, then I will try to get out of that much faster now. I don’t linger in that just because it might be working. Not to say I won’t try to outsource some of that work that I don’t like doing so I can do more of the stuff that I do like, but if it’s really driving me, I’ll cut it at this point.

Sullivan Finlay  20:43

Yeah, I think that’s so smart. There has to be an awareness of, “Okay, sure, this could be working, or it could be getting me to where I want to go, but if I don’t want to do it, then it doesn’t matter.” I think that’s the thing. Over time, it's like constantly refining. I’ve been thinking recently a lot about how success won’t look like what you think it looks like right now. When I moved to Chicago a couple of years ago and wanted to do comedy full-time, I didn’t know that that would start from content. I just started doing content because, like, “Oh, this is another tool in my tool belt. This is another way I can act,” right? Beyond things I'm doing on stage with friends here, beyond acting, any of that. And so it’s looked a lot different, but I'm happy with the result. And I like leaning into this and kind of chasing that feeling of, “I like doing this thing and creating in this way.” So yeah, it really is like a balance between the two, I think.

Callan Harrington  21:36

I do remember when you started doing the videos on TikTok, and I remember texting you, like, “Whoa, dude. This is getting some real traction. This is awesome.”

Sullivan Finlay  21:45

Yeah, it’s cool to see how it's developed along the way. I remember even the checklist format, which I do a lot of now and people have engaged with. It's funny, even, like, I don’t know if this is interesting to people listening to this or not, but kind of the origin of that, I had seen similar things a couple of different places. It kind of reminded me of the ESPN show Pardon the Interruption, where there are topics on the right side and there's a countdown. So you know what's coming. In the same way, in these videos, it’s like there are different items that will be checked off in the video, and you're waiting for them to be checked off. So it keeps people around. But I remember the first time I thought about doing that in a video, I was in London, I think, on a layover, and I’m texting you, like, “Hey, dude, I don’t know if this is gonna work, but this is a crazy idea I had. What if I just put like a checklist on the video for things I say throughout it?” And you’re just like, “Why not try it?” And so it’s cool to see how that’s developed since then.

Callan Harrington  22:36

To me, it was a no-brainer almost afterward when it blew up. I mean, obviously this is the benefit of hindsight, but it was a perfect way to get people to stay on it longer, which triggers the algorithm. These are all things. You know, it’s funny, you do need to pay attention to those things. I know some people say you don’t, and they're just like, “Just create. Just put it out there.” And there’s some truth to that, but there is a way to do this.

Sullivan Finlay  22:58

It really is such a balance. Over time with social, I’ve realized too how much I don’t know and how much the algorithm is a mystery on different platforms. But there are things like that where it’s like, okay, they value people sticking around. So it’s like, how can I do that? I'm sure that will change over time too. It’s always changing, but 100%.

Callan Harrington  23:21

Okay, something that I've been working on, we had a podcast guest. It was Justin Inken, and we got into this. And I've talked to you about this where, you know, I'm looking to start to really expand the team beyond contractors. You know, a number of contractors that we work closely with and work a good amount of hours with, but I need to start hiring full-time employees as we're expanding. And I've struggled with this. I've struggled with three routes to go, because we're a consulting business, so there's, one, that senior person that has been in, you know, VP of sales, rev ops, role, likely somebody that I've worked with before. There’s the junior person that's been in the role and done this. When I say in the role and done this, we largely work with tech companies. So they've been in that role in a tech company more of my career, right? I wasn’t a consultant at all. I had just been a sales executive and a revenue executive for the past 10 to 15 years, and that's how I got into this. So consulting was totally new to me. And then wrestling with, do I hire somebody from the consulting industry? Because there's a lot that I just don’t know and didn’t know on the internal structure of a consulting company. And I was fairly settled on one way. And then Justin said, “You know, one of the biggest things that I would have done differently, and the advice I give to founders all the time, is hire that senior, experienced person from your industry.” He was referring to how he didn’t have any background in a pharmaceutical business, and that’s what he had run at the time, and then hiring somebody from the pharmaceutical industry. And I've heard this from other guests as well. Don't love building the business and the podcast and all that. Like, I love that stuff. But I don't think I realized how far I got away. I was in New York two weeks ago, and I was there for a work trip, and then got together with friends. We went to Comedy Cellar, then had dinner and had some drinks after. And for me, that was just a wake-up call of, I don't think I realized how far I got away from that. The best way that I've heard this described is the Boiling Frog Syndrome. The Boiling Frog Syndrome, for those that are unfamiliar, is... I think this has been myth-busted, but the analogy still holds up pretty well. If the water's hot and a frog jumps in, it’ll jump right out. If you have a frog in water, you turn the heat on, and you slowly bring it to a boil, the frog will die. Actually, it sounds terrible, but I do think that's what happens. I think the times when I've tried to unwind that where it's like, “Oh, I'm gonna work less,” it doesn’t really happen. It’s just how you kind of integrate them, for me personally. But that was a loss. I think the loss was, like, I just, I got away from those true moments of fun. And of course, like, you know, I'm 38 now, so they happen less, but they still need to happen.

Sullivan Finlay  31:16

I think it requires a great deal of intentionality. I mean, think about... there’s a John Mulaney joke of, “Men don’t have friends; they have their wives’ friends’ husbands,” which I think is so true in that sometimes we can just really fail to view or value friendships the way they should be valued. And so I think that is just really good insight to have you say, “At 38, still 38,” you know? To my knowledge, you're not, knocking on wood, dying tomorrow. It’s just really good perspective to gain. And yeah, I think, like you said, I think it really is, ultimately, kind of disguised. It’s a loss, but it is kind of a win. 

Callan Harrington  31:56

Yeah, it’s like the interview question, they say, like, “What are your weaknesses?” Well, I just worked, that’s my weakness.

Sullivan Finlay  32:01

What I thought.

Callan Harrington  32:01

Yeah, I work too hard.

Sullivan Finlay  32:04

Yeah, I'm a bit of a perfectionist.

Callan Harrington  32:09

I stress myself out, but I always hit deadlines, and I always do high-quality work.

Sullivan Finlay  32:14

Yeah, it's like, “I do such high-quality work that sometimes my team really loves me too much.” Too much. They give me gifts. I hate it.

Callan Harrington  32:24

I’ve got a basement full of gifts. Okay, wins. I’ll roll with the wins. And which, you know, I guess it’s kind of not surprising, considering I was just saying the amount of time, but we're gonna have our best month since ‘22 and on track to have the best year yet. So I'm super excited about that. And I’ll say this, you and I have talked about this, but I owe a lot of this to the coach that I hired. I think, as a founder in particular, and definitely... I mean CEO, founder, whatever that might be, you need somebody else holding you accountable. But I think early stage founder, you don’t even have a board. Well, if you're a venture-backed company, you likely have a board. But when you don’t have that, it's just you, and you need somebody else pushing you and holding you accountable. At least I think that I do, and it’s made a big difference for me. So I’d say those are the big wins.

Sullivan Finlay  33:18

I remember when you talked about first going to that coach, and even after that first session, being like, “Hey, I have all this homework coming out of this.” But it’s so helpful, and so it’s cool, just the clarity gained from that. And that’s a huge deal. Congrats! That’s awesome that it’s taking off like that.

Callan Harrington  33:37

I appreciate that, absolutely. What’s the loss on your side?

Sullivan Finlay  33:40

The loss on my side... yeah, I feel like I mentioned earlier how it’s just a really busy season of life. I'll use this as an example, but I think it's also just kind of like, in general, my fiancée and I just got a puppy. He’s a golden retriever, super cute. He’s largely amazing, but training him, I’ve learned, is quite the process. And, you know, early on especially, he’ll go to the bathroom wherever, he’ll bite whatever. Having, I guess, a great deal of impatience has probably been the loss where I’ll be impatient, and then I'll be stressed from that. And just, I think that stress of just the busyness and just realizing how that can really wear me down. In the example of training a dog, but also in moving and preparing for a wedding and doing this new career, that stress has definitely been a loss. Now, I might also disguise this as a win because I was talking to my... I was talking to my therapist about this, and he brought up a really good point where he’s like, “Yeah, well, you know, stress is not bad. It's not inherently bad. There are different types of stress, eustress and distress, you know, kind of good and bad stress. And so it's kind of like, what you do with the stress.” And that has been the win coming out of the loss of just like, “Okay, yes, this is a really busy season. This is crazy.” But you’re always gonna have those. So it’s just like, how do I enjoy the things I’m doing? And that has radically changed, honestly, how I train our dog, or how I wedding plan with my fiancée, how I even think, like I said earlier, strategically about the things I’m doing, taking time to slow down, even though I have all these things going on. That is how, for me, the loss has kind of turned into a win. But yes, it’s just a very stressful and busy time. Learning to know what to do about that has ultimately been fruitful.

Callan Harrington  35:35

Here’s the really positive thing: you’re going to be able, as a result of this, to take on more stress without knowing it, and over time, your body is just going to break down. It's called the Boiling Frog Syndrome. 

Sullivan Finlay  35:48

That’s my goal, right? Is to be the boiling frog. I’m like, throw me in just ice-cold water and heat it up, baby. I hope that's not what happens. My goal is certainly not to take on more stress, but yeah, what’s it been for you?

Callan Harrington  36:04

To the T? I'm saying that as a joke, but I didn't realize this until the past couple months, and I got this boiling frog syndrome from a founder at one of the dinners that we had, and I was talking about because I, you know, I've got those stomach pains that I've told you about. And yeah, went to the doctor. I've done a billion tests, all the things that you can think of, right? And there's no answer. And so the best explanation, he said, he goes, “It's probably stress.” And I said, “I don't feel the same as when I was a sales executive.” And as a sales executive, like I remember that intense pressure that like that feeling of tightness in my face of, yeah, like, “Okay, I have to hit this number. If I don't hit this number, whether or not it was my job.” I mean, it likely is, in that world, if you're a sales leader that doesn't hit the number, then you're not there very long. It's just kind of the nature of the beast, unfortunately. But I remember that. And he goes, “The difference is here you just slowly take on more and more and more over time, and you don't realize it until something starts breaking down,” and he's talking about, and that's when he had mentioned the boiling frog syndrome. I was like, wow, that made more sense to me than anything that I had heard previously. And as a result, I have been doing the things that you're talking about now, which I think is awesome. Of, you know, I am trying to meditate more and journal more. Those are things that I was doing, but I would tell you, like, you slowly start to get away from it, like I'll that’s more time. Or if I've got a deadline, I can work on that. And those things start to cut, then you don't bring them back. And I think bringing those things back, being more intentional in scheduling those times to have fun. Those were wake-up calls for me. And I will tell you, like, most of that didn't happen until the past couple weeks and months, but I'm glad they did. 

Sullivan Finlay  37:53

And kind of circling back to, like, the doctor thing, you're famously anti-medicine. So, no. I am not. There's one thing to put out there, Callan Harrington. No, I'm kidding, but yeah, it really is just, like, such a good perspective to have it kind of like what I said, even with like, you know, social media algorithm earlier, you just realized, like, how many things you can get wrong and things you don't know and just like, okay, like from taking time to slow down. For me, it's like to pray, to meditate, to read, to journal, like different things where it's like out of that can honestly produce more than if I'm focused on just producing, you know, if you have less stress along the way. So it's double win. All right.

Callan Harrington  38:36

Last question before we jump off, what is one thing that you wish somebody would have told you before jumping out on your own?

Sullivan Finlay  38:41

There are a number of things that come to mind. I guess the one at least that I'll start with is kind of getting back kind of a couple of things I said earlier, where one, I think success very likely doesn't look like, you know, what it looks like to you now. And so, like, thinking kind of back on, you know, a couple of years ago, what I thought success in the comedy space would look like, or like, what even doing it full time would look like, having the benefit a couple of years now where I'm like, “Oh, that looks different.” It now gives me a perspective of, “Okay, yeah, I can have all these goals within, like, content and comedy and things like that,” but kind of getting back to like chasing a feeling like there'll be, like, different things that I'm like, “Oh, this is what I actually want to do. This is what I'm passionate about.” And I think passion and interest in something can really be huge drivers of success because that comes through. I think the other thing I haven't think about is, like, what drives success, or, you know, productivity or growth, I really think is kind of, what I said on earlier, is just consistency. I saw something the other day from Seth Rogen, of all people, who was like, you know, the one thing I've seen in this business, in, you know, Hollywood, the single thing I've seen that's been held in common with those who have succeeded versus those who haven't, who have made it, is purely consistency. Like, it's just sure there are people who know people and what get it and, you know, or their plants or whatever. But, like, the people who just like, kind of work day in, day out, and, like, are consistent about, like, having that discipline are like, those who, you know, have some measure of success. Now, it's not all on you. It's dependent on friends and family. I'm a person of faith. Like, I think God has a huge play in that as well. But like, Yeah, I wish somebody had told me, like, the value of just like, “Hey, it can be hard. But like, you know, day in day out, do the work and realize that what results might not look like what you think it looks like now, and that's okay. And maybe even better.”

Callan Harrington  40:34

I love that. And there's this book called Getting to Plan B. I'm not saying I recommend it or not. I just love the title of it because it's like Plan A oftentimes doesn't work out, and you don't know what Plan B is going to be. So figure out as fast as you can whether Plan A works, and then pay attention to what's coming up for Plan B.

Sullivan Finlay  40:51

It should be stated that this book relates to long-term planning and strategic thinking, and not childbirth.

Callan Harrington  40:58

Yeah. No kidding.

Sullivan Finlay  41:02

No, I do love that.

Callan Harrington  41:03

So what I'll say on my side is, I think I underestimated the importance of having a group of peers that are also starting something and growing something similar to what you are. You know, what I found is I'd heard a number of these things before, but since I had been in startups, my whole career, I just assumed that I would know, or my situation would be different. But quickly I was overwhelming my family, friends. You just got to have other people because otherwise, like, all you're talking about in your life outside that is dominated by business, and that is very taxing on them, and then it leaves you thinking, it's like, “Whoa, who you know? Who do I, you know, certainly go to, do I talk to about this?” It's not to say that you won't talk to family and friends about it, and I think that's so important and critical as you're building that, to have somebody be able to kind of share that with. But having that outlet of people that are doing something similar to you and are going through some of those similar challenges helps so much. It's identical to, I just kind of brought up about the founder I was talking to that brought up the boiling frog syndrome. That helped a ton. And I don't know that I would have got that, you know, outside of that. So that's something that I underestimated at first, and I realized how important it is now.

Sullivan Finlay  42:15

It gets back to, like, the human connection. I think you're kind of going even a little further, just like, find the people who, like, are interested in what you're interested in, or who are doing the thing that you're doing. Because, like, none of us can get through it alone. You know, like, there's so much that you learn from people who are doing this, who are a little bit further ahead, usually than you are. And then, like, even sometimes those that are new to it, but have this fresh perspective that I think is also really valuable.

Callan Harrington  42:39

I think that's a perfect place to wrap it up there. Sullivan, this was a blast, and listeners, we'd love your feedback from the episode. How did you like this format? I know it's totally different. We want to hear from you. Sullivan, this was awesome.

Sullivan Finlay  42:52

Callan, thanks so much for having me. I love this kind of format. Thanks so much.