Rich Woo - Founder of Catalyst Planning Partners: Surviving Your First Year in Business, Starting to Network, Spending Your Time Effectively, and Building Your Support System

Rich Woo  00:00

You need a support system, because there's going to be moments where things are awesome. There's gonna be a lot of moments where things are really difficult. And if you listen to the voices in your head, you're not mentally prepared, you don't have the mental fortitude at that point yet to persevere. You're done.

Callan Harrington  00:16

You're listening to That Worked, a show that breaks down the careers of top founders and executives, and pulls out those key items that led to their success. I'm your host, Callan Harrington, founder of Flashgrowth, and I couldn't be more excited that you're here. Welcome back to another episode of That Worked. This week's guest is a fun one for me. I'm talking to Rich Woo. Rich is the founder of Catalyst Planning Partners. Catalyst Planning Partners is a wealth management firm that manages over 400 million dollars of client assets, and worked with a wide array of entrepreneurs, executives and professionals. Rich is also a highly sought after public speaker. He's given over 100 talks at national and local conferences, speaking about financial planning, investment management and business growth. So why is this one so fun for me? Well, my career started at Northwestern Mutual as a financial representative, and I am still eternally grateful for that opportunity. One thing I'll tell you, it's a hard business to start in. You will learn a ton about yourself. For those that can do it. It's incredibly rewarding, and can create an amazing life for yourself. Rich, and I spoke about what worked for him to make it in this career. These are tactics that apply to so many different areas in life, how to start networking, how to survive your first year in business, how to spend your time effectively. But the part of the conversation that I love the most was talking about being your authentic self, and surrounding yourself with the people that matter most to you. Rich gave some excellent advice here. And it really resonated with me personally. With that, I don't want to waste any more time. Let's get to the show. Rich, welcome to the show.

Rich Woo  02:18

Hey, Callan. Thanks for having me.

Callan Harrington  02:20

Now, I'm really excited for this one, because our career started out in a similar path. So tell us a little bit about Catalyst Planning Partners and what you're doing with Catalyst.

Rich Woo  02:31

Yeah. So, out of college I worked in corporate finance for about four to five years. And when I was about 27-28, I was met with opportunity to get into the financial planning and wealth management world. And part of that was intriguing to me, because I wanted to work with not just numbers, but also people. And the other part of that was actually when I was in high school, and I think I shared this with you before, Callan, my mom passed away in an accident. My mom, my dad, and my brother went on a whitewater rafting trip in Wisconsin when I was fifteen. And in a freak accident, we ended up losing her. She ended up drowning in that accident, and it was really difficult. I was fifteen, my brother was seven, you know, in a moment's time, your world just gets kind of flipped upside down. And as you can imagine, at a young age, you know, that sort of thing teaches you a lot. So I learned a lot of tough but important lessons. But among many, one of those lessons was about the importance of being financially prepared, and making sure that whether rain or shine that your family was going to be okay. And so, fast forward fifteen years later, you know, again, when I was 27-28, when thinking about getting into, you know, the opportunity of wealth management, financial planning. It wasn't just about the cache of finance, or making money, or the stock market, or even planning. I mean, all that stuff's interesting. But really, I felt like there was almost like a mission or a calling to the work to help people in, quite frankly, ways that we didn't have help. And so I said, you know, I can get behind that. And I feel like that would be meaningful work to me. And so, you don't know if you're going to be good at the type of work that you do, you can only try. And so the first year, I was like, look, if it works great. And if it doesn't, then I'll figure something else out. But I wanted to give it a shot. And that was, wow, almost fifteen years ago. And you know, we've been really blessed and have been able to build an incredible business. But most importantly, with just incredible people on our team and the clients that we work with. So yeah, it's been just kind of an amazing journey. I honestly wouldn't, if you told me fifteen years ago, you know, where we'd be now and what we would have learned and the people that we would have met along the way, I would have said I don't believe you, but it's been awesome.

Callan Harrington  04:50

So, one of the things that- one, appreciate you telling that story just in general and kind of the deeper reason on why you wanted to go this route. But the- one of the things that I want to touch on, so you started out on the corporate finance world, and then shifted into the personal finance world. And typically, it's the other way around. Typically, well, I'll give you my own story. I couldn't get into corporate finance. So I had to go kind of the personal finance route. And then the interesting thing about that is, you know- is you talk with so many people that went the corporate route, and they're just like, "God, I wish I would have went the other route." Because once you build that book of business, it's one of the best businesses that you can have. But was it that family reason why you made that change?

Rich Woo  05:37

I don't know. I mean, really, I was met with an opportunity. I wasn't looking for it. Someone honestly just reached out to me. So this one particular advisor was working with a client who I went to college with. And they were looking to add people to their organization. And that friend of mine from college, gave that advisor my information, and that's kind of how the whole thing started. So some of it was just, I don't know, serendipity. Call it luck? Like I wasn't looking for it, it just kind of found me. But I think when I was presented with the opportunity, when I did some research, when I thought about it, I was, you know, this could be really interesting. And I think the more and more I thought about it, and kind of dove into it, and thought about, really the reasons of making a long term switch. And this is kind of a big switch. I think that's kind of where the, mission and the kind of the deeper reasoning kind of came up as a part of that process. So I think that's kind of how it happened.

Callan Harrington  06:30

Gotcha. So for you, it was the long term aspects of going this route versus going the corporate finance route aligned more with kind of your goals. Is that right?

Rich Woo  06:42

Yeah, I think there's a lot of reasons. Obviously, autonomy, and building your own business, and running your own business is important. I think, working with people, not just numbers is an important facet. But I also think just the impact piece, you know? I felt like being able to build something, and that I was able to work with people directly and make a direct impact on people, felt a lot more meaningful in light of my story. More so than maybe just working for a big corporation. Again, not to say that you can't make impact through a corporation. I just felt like for me, there was more meaning in that.

Callan Harrington  07:14

Yeah, that makes total sense. And one of the things that I think- The reality is, I think, that you have to have a really strong drive to start that business from scratch. Is that fair to say?

Rich Woo  07:27

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think there's- honestly, some of it is through the practical element, you know? When I was getting into the field, at the time, you know, the financial services field, I still had to kind of support my father. And my father, great man, you know, did everything he could for me and my brother, especially after my mom passed, but you know, just wasn't in a good financial situation. He had made decisions in his profession to just be more available and flexible for me and my brother, but the consequence of that long term was it, he just, quite frankly, didn't save enough money and didn't wasn't in a financial position, to not just help us out, but to help himself out. And so part of me when I was making this decision, I was like, okay, if I'm going to do this, I've got to do it, and be good at it, not just for me, but to help my dad out. So I think there's just a practical element of I gotta work hard. But I think kind of the long term I felt, but I'm also doing this because I believe in the work and I believe that we can add value and actually help people. Yeah, I mean, just to make money in and of itself wasn't going to be enough of a drive- or at least for like a long term driver. Maybe for a couple of years people can do that, but I don't think you can make a twenty-thirty year career in this field, just to make money and to grind that hard and work that hard in the beginning. It's too hard.

Callan Harrington  08:47

And so let's talk about that a little bit. And I'm harping on this a little bit, because I spent some time in this. I started my career out at Northwestern Mutual, and went through this path, and it's really hard. I tell people all the time, go through the Northwestern Mutual internship program. If you're young, and you want to get sales experience, and you want to get that- I still use so much that same sales training today in B2B and enterprise and all sorts of different things, how transferable it is. So you had powerful motivators, you had great reasons why you're doing this, that still doesn't make that first year any easier. What did you do? How did you get off the ground and just start to get traction?

Rich Woo  09:25

Yeah, I think in any sort of business, you have to have a couple things. Number one, I think you have to have some mentorship, like a roadmap, right? Someone just kind of figuring things out from scratch, and, hey, I made a successful business. That's like one in ten million. I think a lot of people that end up succeeding in whatever business they're in, they either had some sort of guide or framework to help them through, or they had really good mentors to teach them the ropes. I think that's important. I think having a strong culture around you. I think whether you're starting a business, a restaurant, financial services business, you need a support system, because there's going to be moments where things are awesome, there's gonna be a lot of moments where things are really difficult. And if you listen to the voices in your head, you're not mentally prepared, you don't have the mental fortitude at that point yet to persevere, you're done. Right? And so, I think having- being a part of a culture or  having people around you to support you and lift you up in those tough times is actually very important. I also think in the beginning, relying not just on, you know, a silver bullet or, you know, one strategy or technique, but just relying on the law of large numbers. And just talking to a lot of people is part of success. I think, all too often people think, especially in our field, oh, I've just got to meet a couple clients or find a couple of really wealthy clients and things will work out. Honestly, you're much better off building a- in the beginning, a much wider- or casting a much wider net of people. And then over time, kind of building up your business off of a large base than just trying to have one or two or five clients carry you. I'm assuming that's also true in like tech, to find just like one large enterprise client, hopefully, like, and it makes up 90% of your revenue, and hopefully, you know, that can get you through the first five to ten years. I don't think that's a good strategy. I think in the beginning, you're better off having a diversified set of clients or revenue streams, or what have you, to be able to support you and grow over time off of that, versus just a concentrated, you know, one or two clients or customers. So I think those are some of the different things that I'm thinking about.

Callan Harrington  11:38

Well, to the point that you mentioned, those three are all important. I think those three that you just mentioned, in particular, the mentors, culture, and just the amount of networking and people that you're seeing just in general. Those are some of the most common themes that come up on the show across any industry, whether that's tech, consulting, you name it, those three are huge. And I think you brought up something in particular I'd love to dive into, and that's support network in particular. How has that helped you throughout your career? Having that support network when, because reality is when you're the founder, it is what it is. It's all in you at the end of the day, like fortunately or unfortunately, it's on you. Do you remember the first time that you had that moment where it was like, what do I do? And then what did you do? Where did you turn to? How do you get information? How do you handle that? Do you remember that story by chance?

Rich Woo  12:32

Yeah! You know what, it's interesting as you shared that, I had a lot of moments where I was like, what do I do? I don't know, if I'm gonna make this happen... I remember, in my first year of building my, you know, wealth management business, I reached out to one of my friends, a good friend that I'd known for a long time, back to high school, we went to college together. I mean, you know, I probably let him you know, copy my homework several times in the past. I mean, you know, someone that I knew very closely, and I was like, okay, if anyone's going to help me and hear me out, potentially become a client, refer me to other people, it's gonna be this guy. And I remember reaching out, and the first thing he told me was like, "hey, man, I appreciate you reaching out, but like, I don't want to do this man. I talked to other financial advisors, and I've been through this whole thing. Just don't put me through that." And I remember thinking, like, I'm not even asking you to become a client. I'm just asking you to sit down with me and just hear me out. Right? Just hear me out. And then you can make your decisions, no strings attached. But I think he was just kind of jaded by this whole process, maybe the industry and was like, I just don't want to do it. And I was just- it kind of hit me, it felt like a punch in the gut. I was like, if I can't get a good friend, who I've known forever, who we've been through thick and thin together to just hear me out, how am I supposed to do this? And I remember going to one of my mentors at the time, who's also a fellow advisor and just telling him. And I was just, I was just emotionally wrecked, I felt just doubting myself. And he was like, "look, some of the people that you expect to work with, you aren't going to. On the flip side, some people that you expect, it's a long shot, it's a one in a million, those are the people that are going to surprise you and work with you. And then there's going to be everyone in between." He said, "so don't get hung up on it. I know it hurts. Like I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings. Don't get hung up on it. Millions of other people out there. Just go find another person to talk to." And I remember taking that advice to heart, and it still hurt, but I went on and I just said, okay, I just got to talk to some other people. Years later, ended up reconnecting with that friend about this topic. I don't know how it came up. And then he ended up becoming a client of mine. And you just realize, like, you know, sometimes it's not you. Sometimes it's timing. But at the end of the day, if you have people around you to kind of build you up, share about their experiences, just honestly just hear you out, and just be a sounding board for you, man. That's everything. That's everything. How do you do that today? To add a little more detail on that. When you're starting out, there's all these other people that have been there before. But now you're at the top of your game at this point.  Yeah.

Callan Harrington  15:14

Are you creating a network of other people that are at the top of their game? In order to pull that off? What is your process for keeping that group, that community, that mentorship in order to continue to grow?

Rich Woo  15:28

Yeah, that's great. I don't think there's any one thing that I do, but a couple of things come to mind. Number one, I still get coaching. I get business coaching. I think that's really important to have kind of a third party evaluate you, your headspace, your goals, the things that you're thinking about. I think that's really important on an ongoing basis. I mean, if Tiger Woods still has a coach to this day, and he's the greatest golfer of all time, I probably in my industry could use a coach ongoing. I think having a good support system at home, good set of friends that understand you and care for you. Sometimes it's not always about getting the next business idea or strategy to help lift you up in those times. Sometimes it's just having someone to just be there for you and listen to you when things are kind of not going well. I just took a class through a school called The EQ School. And it was like a four part class. I'm actually in the middle of it. And one of the things that we talked about was this idea of giving feedback and receiving feedback. And one of the eye opening things that we talked about in that session was how important it is when- whether you're giving or receiving feedback, is not to make it about you. Right? And so how often, you know, when you're in a support system, and you're just sharing what's on your heart, and you're broken, or you're devastated, do people come back and want to tell you a story about you know, their situation, or give you advice to solve a problem, or tell you about what they think about it. When the reality is nine out of ten times, you don't want any of that. You want someone to say, "oh, man, that must be tough. Hey, I'm here for you, man. What else is going on in your mind? You just want a safe space to be heard. Right? Whether that's in our marriages, or things that's going on, people just want to be heard. They got the solutions inside of them, they have a lot of advice that you're ready to give them, they already have that inside of them. They just want a space to just have a friend sit with them in pain and sorrow and difficulty and tragedy, you know? And so that's something that quite frankly, I'm learning now to give to other people. You know, it's not always the solution. It's space. It's just being there. It's a body to say, hey, I care for you. And I'm here. So I think that's important when you're formulating relationships. And back to your original question about like, what- what do you need from people? And how do you create that? Sometimes I just need friends that I know care about me, and love me, and just will give me space to be heard and to be seen.

Callan Harrington  17:56

So, I know exactly what you're saying. And it is a lot of times that people just want to be heard. My challenge is that I want to jump into solutioning. Right? Especially if it's something that I know. It's like, oh, I know it! And I know, you know, I've been doing this long enough to know, it's like Callan, you need to shut up. You can't make it about yourself. I even do it on the podcast! Where it's like Callan, stop talking about it. It's not your story. It's the guest's story. How do you- I have to assume, and this is an assumption-

Rich Woo  18:22

Yeah.

Callan Harrington  18:23

And please correct me if I'm wrong, but I have to assume that, you know, given that you're a striver, you're somebody that's pushed hard to build this business into what it is, that you probably like to solution? You probably like to problem-solve.

Rich Woo  18:35

Yeah, sure.

Callan Harrington  18:36

How do you prevent yourself from doing that in those situations?

Rich Woo  18:39

Sure. Yep. Yeah, that's good. So we were talking about before, you know, business coach is helpful. Two other things that I have; I have a study group, so a peer based study group of other folks that are advisors in my field that are top performing people that I respect, have good ideas. And you know, we meet once a month and share ideas, give each other feedback, help each other out. So, I think very intentional forums and frameworks like that are very helpful to have on an ongoing basis with people that you respect. Something else that I do- I think, Callan, we had talked about this. I also host something called a Jeffersonian dinner. Six to eight people, dinner, curated invite list of people that you want to invite, and that would be important to hear from and learn from. And the format's interesting, because you get a prompt in advance. And it could be something- What's a perspective change that you've had recently that's made a profound impact in your life? Right? So everyone gets the prompt in advance, and at the dinner, everyone goes around and shares one at a time, and everyone listens to that person. And so there's no side conversations. And there's one focus of topic, and one person is focused on at a time. I found that community and that kind of dinner club that I put together very helpful, because that's an environment where you have leaders from other industries. Someone in tech, someone in real estate, someone in media, a pro athlete, and they're all sharing about the same topic. And you're gleaning wisdom from them, they're gleaning wisdom from you. And I think that's also another forum that's been helpful to me as a kind of a business leader and as a company leader, to learn from those kinds of environments from other people in other industries. So those are some of the things that I have in my life that are kind of on an ongoing basis, and that I've kind of implemented into my life.

Callan Harrington  20:22

Yeah, I'm super excited about the dinners. You know, one of the things that struck me immediately was when I asked you as like, well, do I pick up the bill? Do we split up the bill? And I noticed like, Okay, well, why are you getting into the weeds on this? I'm getting, because you said something I thought was super important. And it's that everybody splits the bill. So you don't want people to think, oh, there's gotta be some catch to this. And to your point, it is- it is just that it's creating this community of like-minded in the sense that these are people that want to learn, grow, hear other people's stories in order to get different perspectives.

Rich Woo  21:00

That's right.

Callan Harrington  21:01

And if there's this thought of this consulting company is picking up the bill. Why are they picking up the bill? Then it could kind of ruin the the actual purpose of that.

Rich Woo  21:12

Totally.

Callan Harrington  21:12

I thought that was a really great point.

Rich Woo  21:14

That's right. That's right.

Callan Harrington  21:15

You know, you brought up so many good things, and I can unpack all of these. But one thing that I get asked a lot, and I'd love to get your take on this is. If you're a younger person, and you want to start networking, and you want to start meeting people and building these relationships, you have no idea how to do it probably are nervous, especially if you don't come from a sales background. Or maybe you're not the biggest, the most outgoing or the loudest person in the room, which is typically kind of the stereotype of what we think of when we think of networking. I think of it very differently, but I'm also the loudest person in the room. What are some ways that that people, if you're kind of younger in your career, can get out there and start to meet other people and build those relationships?

Rich Woo  21:55

Yeah, I think that's really good. So a couple of things. And actually, I talk a little bit about this in my book, which hasn't been released yet. But it's a book entitled Diving Into Depth. And it talks about: how do you develop relationships? How do you deepen relationships? And how do you live with intention? And I think if I was a younger person in my twenties, even in my early thirties, and I'm building up my network and trying to meet people. A couple things: one, I would just keep an open mindset. Someone invites me to a barbecue, I wouldn't think so hard about it, go to the barbecue. Conference comes up, sounds interesting, you never know who you're going to meet, go to the conference, don't think too much about it, like just sign up and go right? You're gonna watch Netflix anyway, during that time, might as well make use of it. Right? So, I think having an open mindset is really important. I think when you meet with interesting people, asking those people to introduce you to other interesting people. I've found that if I can meet and have an incredible conversation with Callan, Callan probably knows other interesting and incredible people like himself. And so if we have a great conversation, and I say, wow, well, you mentioned Steve, Jamie and John, would you be open to connecting me to one or two of those people. They sound like amazing people for me to meet. Asking to be connected, then that starts widening your network. And I also think it's not just about finding the opportunity and meeting people, I think it's about how you interact in those meetings. Right. So when I'm at the barbecue, or I'm at the conference, or I'm at coffee with Callan, I think having a curious mindset. And having the humility to ask questions, versus just talk the whole time, I think that's really important. I was watching an episode of The Bachelor with my wife- don't judge me- the other day. There was this one female contestant, and she's a nice girl, and she's just in her head, and kept saying, "oh my gosh, I don't think he likes me." And we're there replaying like, her interaction with a guy and the whole time she goes, says something, doesn't give him a chance to respond, talks more about how she's feeling insecure, talks more about herself. The whole- she doesn't ask him anything about him. And what we know, and what you know, is that ultimately, the sweetest thing that people want to hear is the sound of their own voice. Right? That creates a safe space for them to feel heard, and understood, and to feel cared for. The last thing someone wants to do is just hear you talk the whole time. I mean, interview format, it's different, right? If someone gets invited, they're here to ask you to speak. But in a normal conversation, if you're just talking the whole time, you never ask a question, you're never curious, you never give someone space. Good luck if that one person ever wants to hear you again, hear from you again. So I think the interactions are also very important. Being able to ask questions, really care and want to learn about the other person, being curious. That creates an incredible, I think, interaction, which then will lead to other networking and opportunities for that person to invite you back and invite you into the fold.

Callan Harrington  24:47

I think so. I think one of the things that you know, and I'd be curious to get your take on this, is that you don't have to be liked by everybody. And it's okay if you get into that conversation and you're like, well, we just weren't not clicking, we're not hitting it off. That's fine. It doesn't mean you won't at another time, but you don't have to feel, you know, it's like, oh, man, I'm just not good at this. Maybe. Or just maybe that's not the right person, maybe that's that. You almost find your group, right? Yeah. And then sometimes you'll get away from the group. But the group always comes back, typically, because I think you learn this more too as you get older, and kids are involved, and things like that. And I think the pandemic pulled a lot of us a lot of us- I think that brought a lot of us to: who are your real relationships? Who are those ones that, that when everything is removed, what's there? Right? And I think it's, to your point of, in order to get to there, it really is understanding those deep relationships. Do you see that in a similar fashion?

Rich Woo  25:42

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right. I think when you were talking, you made me think of a quote that- we spend far too much time buying things that we don't want to impress people that we don't care about, and for what, right? Whether it was- I think back to my twenties and thirties- how many times was I trying to make friendships with the cool people, or impress somebody I was on a date on, and putting on a front of a person that I really wasn't. So then those people become your friends, you end up going on more dates with that girl, and for you to continue to have to be a faux version of yourself. Like, that's not a fun way to live. Like I have to keep putting on this air of someone that I'm not, so that these people still continue to like me? That's not to say that you don't try to put your best foot forward. That doesn't mean if you're at the core, you're a jerk that you act like a jerk all the time, and you know, you don't try to work on that part of yourself. But that is to say, if that you're pretending to be someone that you're not to just garner new friendships and click with people that you don't really click with. Like, you're wasting a lot of time, because you're gonna build a community of people that you don't actually like spending time with. And then twenty years later, you're like, wait I invested twenty years in people that I don't actually even like, or I want to be around. Why am I doing this? Life is too short for that. You know, I'm already forty-two, and I'm feeling, wow- I'm like twenty years out of college! How did I spend my time? And when I look back, I don't want to think about feeling like I wasted it, because I just needed to make an extra buck or, you know, needed to impress somebody. So, I think the quicker that you can realize that, the better off you'll be in the long run, because there's going to be people that you click with, that you can succeed together with and that you'll be excited about hanging out with. And those are the times you need to invest your relationships in.

Callan Harrington  27:26

That brought up the question- I totally agree with everything that you just said, and one of the things that I think people struggle with, or at least I see this, I should say. I see this on LinkedIn, and I see this, and there's a lot of talk about your authentic self and being your authentic self. And then it's: where are you supposed to be your authentic self? In every situation? Where, if you're someone that swears a lot- and I'm not, you know, if you do or you don't, I could care less- but should you just swear all over? And if they don't? If that person doesn't grasp that, then they're not for you? Or is it, do you get comfortable with somebody, and then you're your authentic self, and then you see where it is? What is that to you?

Rich Woo  28:09

Yeah, that's like, man, that's a really good question. I don't know if I have an amazing answer for that. Because I think people are going to differ on how they view this. But I think that it's important to be your authentic self. But it's also important to use wisdom and restraint. If I'm at my best friend's funeral for his mom. And I'm a person that likes to swear and just be really loud. And it's in the middle of service. And I just want to talk in the back and start swearing in the back and being really loud and be like, well, this is who I am. You're just being foolish. That's not exercising wisdom. Right? But if, you know, I like to swear, and I like to be really loud, and every place I'm going I'm just thinking, oh, but I'm worried... Like if I-  like you don't want to live with those shackles either. Right? So I think it's just knowing the appropriate contexts to be fully- Right? We're never fully our complete- like there's things that we don't want to, quite frankly, share with anyone. Are you not living your authentic self because you're not sharing everything in the deep recesses of your heart with other people? No, I don't think so. I think you're just showing restraint. I think you're showing wisdom. I think you're understanding the context. So I think every situation is different. And I think the degree to which you can be authentic is great. But I think the degree to which you can put a filter on that too, out of respect for other people in the context. I think that's even greater. So I don't think there's an easy answer, but I don't think it's so black and white. I don't think it's hold it all back, I don't think it just unleash your full self in every situation all the time.

Callan Harrington  29:41

Yeah, I tend to agree with that. And as you were saying that it's almost- it's almost, what are you willing to say no to? Right? Because in the beginning, and I definitely did this, I said yes to everything. And I did the same thing. I tried to hang around all the people that looked like they were doing all types of cool stuff, and then I was like, man, this really not that cool. I'm not like this. And then, you know, when things got tough, were those people there? No, not a chance.

Rich Woo  30:10

Yeah.

Callan Harrington  30:10

It was the same people that I built deep relationships with all my life-

Rich Woo  30:11

That's right.

Callan Harrington  30:11

-that were there, and it was not the people, I realized how superficial those relationships really were. And it's not to say you don't network. You're going to network in your business, in your industry. And some of those will be deep relationships. And some of those, it just ends up being, you guys have a good connection, and you help kind of refer each other, and-

Rich Woo  30:31

Totally!

Callan Harrington  30:32

-and network, and things like that, and that's okay. This brought me to a point, and I would love to kind of get your take on this is. So you're- you mentioned in the book about living with intention. And you're at this point within your business now, where my guess is you can probably choose. You can choose: do I want to be number one Forbes wealth advisor? Or do I want to take this in another way? What does that look for you now that you have the choice that you can keep putting fuel on the fire, you can pull back? What does that look for you? And how do you think about that?

Rich Woo  31:06

Yeah, that's a good question. I think that getting yourself to a place where you have options takes work, right? It wasn't always like that, right? At the beginning of my career, I couldn't say, well, I just wherever I want, I can work five hours a week, and I can you know, be at the top of my profession. No, you have to earn that overtime, right? You have to put in the work. But now that I've been doing this for a long time, the business is, to some degree, self sustaining because we have a team of eleven. And you know, it's not me that has to answer every single question and be available every single minute. There's a lot of optionality. So as far as the business is concerned, I think, you know, we have a more narrow scope on the types of folks that we're looking to work with. Quite frankly, not just from a metric standpoint, but just personality standpoint. And like, we want to work with people that are nice people, that appreciate our advice, and that aren't just demeaning, and just want to tell us, you know, what they want to do as, you know, us being order takers. So I think at this point, I'm spending my time really trying to develop the business, grow clients in a very specific and narrow, focused way. And then with additional time that I have, again, I'm not working eighty - ninety hours a week. I want to invest it in other things that are important. Work isn't the only thing that's important to me. I want to- You know, my kids are everything. I have a three year old and a one year old. And I told my business partner, Joe, this, and we had agreed. Hey, we want to build an incredible business, but never at the expense of our families. I don't want to have hundreds of millions of dollars of money in my bank account. And then all of a sudden, I'm divorced, and my kids hate me. I'm not saying that those two things have to be true. You could have hundreds of millions of dollars and a great family. But I just- I don't want to work 110 hours, sacrifice my family, just to make another dollar. There's a diminishing marginal utility for extra dollars that we make at this point. My family's fed, we have a roof over our head, we're very comfortable. I want to have an awesome family life. I want to be a part of the community. I want to work on projects that are important to me, like these Jeffersonian dinners, and my podcast, and the book that I'm writing. Those are things that are important to me. And so, you know, to answer your question, it's nice to have optionality because you can be more focused, you can work on the things that you want to work on. But it also gives you the ability to work on things outside of work, so that it's not just about making the next dollar or building the business, you know, one unit higher.

Callan Harrington  33:22

I love that answer. And if I'm hearing you correctly, it's now that you have the options, you're choosing to put those- I want to work with the clients I want to work with. I want to spend time with my family. The business is going to grow no matter what.

Rich Woo  33:37

Yep

Callan Harrington  33:37

 But we're gonna grow it in a way that maximizes our enjoyment of it, both personally and professionally. Is that correct?

Rich Woo  33:44

Yeah, that's correct. I would also add one thing. Sometimes it's kind of still hard to know. But am I still using my time correctly? Should I be spending more time in the business? Or should I be spending more time at home? The way that I kind of test if where I'm headed is going in the right direction is, I just at the end of each day or each week I go, how do I feel about how I use my time? Do I have a lot of regret? If I'm working fifteen hours a day, I promise you, I'm probably thinking, wait, I'm not starving. Why am I doing this? You know, and I'm probably thinking like, I didn't spend enough time with my family. If I'm not working at all, and I'm worried about like the bills being paid, and you know, the business is about to collapse, I'm probably thinking, I probably should be working a little bit harder, right? I- you know, kids are at school. There's no more time to spend with them. So I think some of it is I try to test the direction I'm going in by looking backwards and saying, how do I feel about that week? How did I feel about that day? Do I have any regrets? If I do, why? And so it's kind of an ongoing process. But that's that's just one way that I think about it.

Callan Harrington  34:47

If you could have a conversation with your younger self, what would that conversation be, and what advice would you give them? Up to you on the age.

Rich Woo  34:56

God, that's a- man, that's a really good question. What would I- What kind of advice? I think going back to what we were talking about before, think about the type of person that you are. And be true to that. I would say that even to my fifteen-twenty year old self, twenty year ago self, in my twenties and even in my early thirties. Don't worry so much about fitting in or hanging out with cool people or trying to put on an act on who you think other people want you to be and just be you. Because the problem is, when you put on an act, when you're a version of your faux self, that's not really your true self, then you end up investing a lot of time in things that, quite frankly, you don't want to be a part of in the future. And they don't really care about you, to your point. And so, I think I probably spent a little bit of time doing that in my twenties and thirties. And I wish I could have had some of that time back. Because you end up spending more time as your authentic self, good things will come. You'll meet the right people, you'll get business done. As long as you're working hard, you treat people right, and you're going in the right direction, with the right attitude and authentic self. All those other things will take care of itself.

Callan Harrington  36:05

Rich, thanks for coming on the show.

Rich Woo  36:07

Thanks for having me, Callan.

Callan Harrington  36:12

I hope you enjoy Rich and I's conversation. I love talking about just being you. I personally was stuck in the trap of what I should be as opposed to who I actually am. And making that change made all the difference in the world. If you want to learn more about Rich, you can find him on LinkedIn. Also, if you liked this episode, you could find me on LinkedIn to let me know. And if you really want to support the show, a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify is very much appreciated. Thanks for listening, and I'll see everybody next week.