Sarah Kallile - Founder & CEO of Lunnie: Building a Community-Led Brand, Creating Brand Evangelists, Finding the Right Idea to Start Your Business, and Not Caring What People Think of You

Sarah Kallile  00:00

When I launched the product, I had no idea how it was going to sell. That was really scary actually. And then the sales just poured in, and I sobbed. I sobbed. It was so cool. It was such a validating moment.

Callan Harrington  00:16

You're listening to That Worked, a show that breaks down the careers of top founders and executives and pulls out those key items that led to their success. I'm your host, Callan Harrington, founder of Flashgrowth, and I couldn't be more excited that you're here. Welcome back to another episode of That Worked. I'm excited to get this one released. I'm joined by Sarah Kallile. Sarah is the founder and CEO of Lunnie, a postpartum intimate brand for modern mothers. Lunnie disrupted the market with their all day leak proof nursing bra, and not only are they creating products, but they are launching a movement to support postpartum women who have been underserved. Lunnie has won the Soin Award for Innovation and multiple pitch competitions, including the University of Dayton Flyer Pitch, and the Female Founder Collective Pitch. Sarah has earned over a hundred and twenty five thousand in grants to date, and is the proud mother of three girls under five, whom Lunnie is named after. I thought it was really interesting to talk about raising money through grants, which is a fundraising method that you just don't hear about as much. And we had a lot of great discussions. We talked about always wanting to start a company but feeling you don't have the right idea. This one hit close to home. And I loved hearing Sarah's story of when she really found that right idea with Lunnie. We dove into how Sarah has used community-led growth right from the beginning of Lunnie. And I gotta say, if there's one thing that I learned from this episode, it's that I have a lot to learn about what mothers go through. I know we only talked about a small piece of what mothers go through, but it was eye opening for me. You'll see what I mean pretty quickly. So with that, let's jump into the show. Sarah, welcome to the show.

Sarah Kallile  02:15

Thank you, Callan. I'm so glad to be here. Yeah, we're

Callan Harrington  02:18

Yeah, we're excited to have you. And then we also have Jen co-hosting, Jen Lyttle is co-hosting with us. So Jen, I'm excited about this. And if you've listened to show, you know that she was a former guest on the show, and Jen and I have worked together for a long time now.

Jen Lyttle  02:31

Yeah, long time. Don't say how long, but here we are. I'm excited.

Callan Harrington  02:35

Should I say it?

Jen Lyttle  02:36

It's been a long time.

Callan Harrington  02:38

Okay, we'll keep it at that. Sarah, tell us a little bit about Lunnie. What are you doing with Lunnie and the company that you had founded.

Sarah Kallile  02:43

So Lunnie is a brand for modern moms. And we are redefining postpartum as pretty and powerful. And doing that specifically through our innovative leak proof nursing bra. So I came up with the idea. I'm a mom myself. I have three little girls under the age of five. But when I came up with the idea, I just had two at the time, and I really felt like there was a gap in the market for products and innovation specifically for postpartum women, and postpartum being the time after a woman gives birth.

Callan Harrington  03:14

Gotcha. So was this a problem that you were personally experiencing?

Sarah Kallile  03:18

Yes. So I came up with the idea. It was January 2021. It was the dead of winter, the pandemic was wearing on. At that time, I was a stay at home mom to... my oldest was two and a half, and my younger daughter was about five months. And I was just really feeling the isolation as a mom during the pandemic. I mean, we all were, but I think moms especially took on the real brunt of labor with childcare. And I was thinking about all these things, and I just started getting really fixated on my nursing bra. If you don't know what a nursing bra is, it is an essential garment that moms wear. It basically has a clasp at the top that allows you to easily pull your bra down, so you can feed your baby. You don't have to disrobe. It's actually an FSA, HSA eligible medical garment. If you are a breastfeeding mom, you are wearing this. And there are two main issues I found with it. One was just the aesthetic that traditionally they all kind of look the same. Jen's shaking her head or nodding her head. They're big, they're beige, they're frumpy. And then the second problem I had is that they're totally ineffective against leaking breast milk. So when you are a nursing mom, you will leak breast milk at all times, not just when you're feeding your baby. Actually can happen a lot when you're not around your baby. And so moms will wear these pads within their bra to help prevent leaking and have it not show through your clothes. But they shift around a lot. They can be really hot and sweaty. And I just thought why isn't a pretty nursing bra with built in leak proof layer, why doesn't that exist? And I kept looking for it online. I kept asking my friends. I thought surely this has to exist, and I could not find it. And that is when I decided to create a Google survey and send it to friends, and really dig into what their pain points were with nursing bras. I mean, maybe I was the one who was the only one who was obsessed with this. And I sent this survey. And within days, I had over 300 responses. And 84% of moms said they did not like their nursing bra. And that was my light bulb moment. I was like, wow, this is not just me. And Jen, you know, a nursing bra, you will wear this on your body 24/7 depending on how long you nurse, depending how many kids you have, you will wear it for years. And for 84% of moms not to like their nursing bra? I mean, that's just BS. Women deserve better. So that's when I decided to do something about it.

Jen Lyttle  05:45

Yeah. And on top of that, not only are they god awful ugly, they don't work. They're inefficient. So you are usually having to disrobe in public, if you're doing that. And they don't last long. The wear and tear of them is very quick, because like you said, you're wearing them all day, and you're constantly doing laundry, you're constantly having to supply them. And you've mentioned something about how mothers are experiencing leaking constantly. I didn't know that if I was going to be out in public without my son, and a baby cried in public, your body recognizes a baby crying and starts instantly producing breast milk.

Callan Harrington  06:25

No way.

Jen Lyttle  06:26

 I promise that is a real thing.

Callan Harrington  06:28

I guess I should say, I'm not challenging that fact. (laughs)

Jen Lyttle  06:31

(laughs)

Callan Harrington  06:32

I have no right. No-

Jen Lyttle  06:34

Yes.

Callan Harrington  06:34

That doesn't happen. (laughs)

Jen Lyttle  06:35

It does. And I can tell you from experience, because I was not prepared for that. And of course, I was on a subway actually in New York when this happened. And I'm like, oh my gosh, and I'm like producing breast milk at mass amounts. Because this baby's crying around me. With no pump, no leak proof, no nothing.

Sarah Kallile  06:53

Oh my gosh, and so many women can relate to that story. I mean, I have very similar stories with my first and even my second as I- you know, before I developed this bra. And that's kind of part of Lunnie's mission too, is to take just normalizing what happens with breastfeeding and postpartum. So much of the experience, as a first time mom, to me came as a shock. I was utterly shocked at the things that happen to your body and what you experience. And it's really because nobody talks about it. So my goal with Lunnie is to normalize this and really empower moms, and educate moms, and make them feel beautiful and strong in this postpartum phase. Because that's really what they are. But society and kind of brands, the amount of attention that's paid to it right now would have you believe otherwise.

Callan Harrington  07:41

Okay, so I've got a couple of questions. One, what do you do in that situation? So if you don't have what you had created, that actually is kind of blowing my mind right now about- and I know, I probably sound like a complete idiot on the show. But if I'm this surprised, I have to assume other people are this surprised. What do you do in that situation?

Jen Lyttle  07:58

Yeah, I mean, for me, it was honestly like, you can't do anything. You're on- I was stuck on a subway, I couldn't do anything. I was on my way back to my Airbnb. And when that happens, as you know, you have to pump quickly. Like you have to find a way to extract the extra milk that's coming in. Not only does it become uncomfortable, like you're actually hurting sitting there, you have all these strangers looking at you like trying to cover your breasts on a on a subway looking crazy. And I'm like beelining out of the subway trying to get to my Airbnb. And it's such a waste. You know, this. Wasting breast milk is literally like throwing diamonds out of a window on the freeway going ninety miles an hour. That's how it feels.

Sarah Kallile  08:40

That is the perfect analogy. There is a phrase of saying breast milk is liquid gold, because breast milk contains all these amazing nutrients for your baby. If your baby's sick, the actual makeup of the breast milk will change and provide a different immunity for your baby. So it is absolutely devastating as a mom when you waste any drop of breast milk, because it takes so much energy for your body to produce, and your baby doesn't get to benefit from that.

Callan Harrington  09:10

I want to go back to that survey. So you had 300 people? How many people did you send this thing out to?

Sarah Kallile  09:14

I texted it maybe twenty-five, thirty friends of mine who are moms. I said, can you take this, send it to other friends and moms if you think it's relevant? And that- it just went viral that way. I mean, I didn't have social media channels at the time, Lunnie social media or anything. So it was really just friends sharing with friends. And I mean, the response, I collected emails, I collected geographic areas. It went all over the country, and actually I closed the survey after a couple of days because I was like, woah, this is getting crazy. I think I got what I need.

Callan Harrington  09:47

84% that fast, right? It's interesting because some people may say, Well, that's not statistically significant, but the reality is, you look at statistical significance, but then as well as order of magnitude. At 84% is pretty over whelming. Odds are if that went to another 3000 people, it would probably be pretty close, maybe a percent or two off. I'm no statistician.

Jen Lyttle  10:07

And an instant email list, like the instant organic customer base that you have from this survey is so, so valuable probably having all these women who are raising their hand saying they hate a product they have to use.

Sarah Kallile  10:20

Yes. So that is actually exactly what I did with those emails is because I got this fiery response. I mean, I had a comment section and women were just lit up about this topic, about how much they hated their nursing bra. And for these reasons, and what could be better. I thought, well, certainly if these women are so passionate about this topic as I am, they might want to help me as they develop my product. So I always describe Lunnie as a community-led brand because this community truly came before the product. So the first prototype- I do not have a background in design, or apparel, manufacturing, but I do have a mom who can sew. So, my first prototype I had, my mom help me, and I call it my Frankenstein bra. And we literally just hacked together materials of different bras. And the absorbent layer, I cut up Thinx period panties. Period panties are a newer thing over the past five years that women were in lieu of tampons when they're on their period, but it has this really absorbent fabric. So I just cut it up and sewed it in, as a concept to see would women respond to this. And I started in person product testing. So I live here in Dayton, Ohio, and I had this little pink bag with my Lunnie bra in it, and I was literally taking it doorstep to doorstep and having moms try it on and give me real-time feedback. And then eventually I took this bra, I won a pitch competition that gave me a little bit of grant money, and that enabled me to work with a small batch manufacturer in Columbus. And over the course of a year I went through six prototypes. Every single time I was taking again the same pink bag with my new prototype in it, and having moms test it. And after six prototypes, we nailed the design. And what was really amazing is these women were not just my product testers, but then by the time I launched, they became my consumers and my brand evangelists. And I sold out my first production run with zero marketing dollars because I had built this community.

Jen Lyttle  12:15

Wow. That's awesome.

Callan Harrington  12:17

That is so interesting. Okay, you have to be a big Sara Blakely fan is my guess. I only say that because this is her path to the T in creating Spanx. And is that the reason why you didn't go venture capital in particular?

Sarah Kallile  12:31

Well, you are spot on Sara Blakely is my absolute entrepreneur idol. I think she is amazing. And what she built at Spanx, and just as a human being and supporter of other female entrepreneurs. But yeah, I mean, to be honest, when I was doing this whole bra prototyping over a year, like we were still kind of like still getting out of the pandemic. And this is just kind of the way I thought to do it. I didn't have a grand plan, it was just one step in front of another. And yeah, because I had success with early on with a pitch competition. The first one I competed in was actually only two months into working into my idea. And it was with the Female Founder Collective, which is a national organization. It's co-founded by Rebecca Minkoff, who is a fashion designer and business mogul herself. And I had the opportunity to pitch this idea to her and four other judges who are also prominent female CEOs. And they loved it. And I won. And I literally pitched this on Zoom from my daughter's play room and like just had the camera turned so you couldn't see their bounce house. The- how scrappy I truly was behind the scenes, in presenting to these women, thankfully did not come across. But yeah, just having their support early on, I was like, surely if these women believe in this and see the opportunity, I have to pursue it. So that gave me capital start. I know you asked or alluded to early on about talking about fundraising and whatnot. But I went on to win another major pitch competition and then have also received resources through the Entrepreneur Center here in Dayton, for funding. And to date I have raised about 100K in grants non-equity. And that is how I've been able to run my business.

Callan Harrington  14:11

A couple of things I want to come back to: did you always want to be an entrepreneur?

Sarah Kallile  14:15

Yes. When the time I was little, I always loved having pretend businesses. I had this thing called Sarah Stores Incorporated. I think one Christmas my mom even gave me a stamp that said Sarah Stores Incorporated on it. I had like all these pretend businesses, and I would write up elaborate receipts for my family. And then I went to college, I actually went to journalism school. And because at the time, I thought, I love storytelling. And I still do, but after I graduated, it was kind of a rough time. I graduated in 2006. And it wasn't a great time for the economy. And I had an opportunity to join a startup in San Francisco, an early stage startup, and it felt really exciting and cool. So I thought okay, I'll try this, and I definitely got hit by the entrepreneur bug. So I ended up spending almost ten years working for early stage startups in San Francisco. And then later on Seattle. And I always had this entrepreneur itch, but I never had this great idea. I mean, I can't tell you- for years after dinner, my husband and I would sit around and I would just be shooting off business ideas sort of, and none of them really- he was like, "ehh...maybe."

Jen Lyttle  15:26

Probably like the most biased person in the room, right, you're shooting these ideas to.

Sarah Kallile  15:31

Yeah. But then when I finally- this idea of this nursing bra came to me and it was this perfect marriage of here's this innovative product that doesn't exist. Here's this gap in the market. Here I am living the life of a consumer, as a mother, of a breastfeeding mom, like this is my life day to day. All these things just kind of added up and then layer on top of it the pandemic and feeling like I needed an outlet for my mind. That was the perfect storm that made me go, okay, I'm gonna try it. Why not? What's there to lose?

Callan Harrington  16:05

What was that transition like?

Sarah Kallile  16:07

You know, it was scary. It was scary taking the leap, even though I had always thought about it, you always wonder, what are people gonna think of me, who is Sarah to make an apparel brand, she's never- I worked in healthcare technology for like B2B companies, most of my career, not related. But I think actually, something really magical for me that happened after I became a mom is that I just don't care what people think about me anymore. I care a lot what my kids think about me. But it kind of just unleashed this confidence that at the end of the day, really the only thing that matters is my kids. That's what I care about the most. So, I would have not have had the confidence to do this ten years ago, even five years ago. And I think motherhood really helped me in that way. So, making the leap was scary. It was cool to see how many people rallied around it. I won't say 100% of people in my life. I could definitely still feel the probing questions. And the "hmmm, that's interesting. Like, how are you going to do that?" But the truth is, that doesn't matter, if you believe in it. And what was most important is people who are going to be my consumers really believed in it, other moms believed in it. And that gave me also the confidence and push to keep going.

Callan Harrington  17:22

I know that feeling of throwing ideas against the wall, because you just want to start something so bad, but nothing... Because what I found with myself was I'd want to do a business, it'd be a decent idea, nine times out of ten, these decent ideas I've taken from something that's already existing. And then once I start getting into I'm like, I don't really know that I've got the drive. Do I care about the idea this much to keep going? Do you think that if it wasn't an idea that was mission driven, that you were this passionate about, that you would have ended up doing it?

Sarah Kallile  17:51

I don't think so. And I think a lot of it is because I'm a mom. I have three really little kids. I had my third baby in the middle of launching my company. And if I'm going to do something that takes time away from my kids, I have to be 100% in. I mean, you're nodding your head, Jen. When I was a first time mom, for example, I went back to work after my first daughter was born. And I didn't really like my job that much. And I just sat around all day at my computer. I'm like, why am I here, like I miss my baby so much. This work doesn't really mean that much to me. And I ended up not sticking with the job. But now on the flip side, I'm working like a crazy person running my own company. But it brings me so much joy. And I'm able to share this journey with my daughters too. I'm pretty sure my five year old is the only girl at school drawing pictures of nursing bras. We got that going on. You know, they're little, but they get to be a part of it. They come with me to the post office and help drop off bra packages. And it's really cool. So yeah, I think I only would have pursued it being this mission driven company.

Jen Lyttle  18:56

I feel that moment of... so I had my son during the pandemic as well, height of the pandemic, had him in April of 2021. And I was working for an organization at the time that I love the organization itself, but what I was doing in the industry I just wasn't super thrilled with. And to your point, you know, we had finished our maternity leave, we're going back to work and I dreaded hiring somebody to come in and take care of my son or set shipping them off to daycare every day, especially breastfeeding. I didn't want to go through the pumping at work and freezing it and not having that time. And I did, you know, I- that same feeling of if I'm spending all this time away from my children, should I be doing something that I really- that time that's away from them I actually enjoy. So that's always really interesting to hear the moms and the pandemic. How many of them have done that. I've heard that story many, many times.

Sarah Kallile  19:51

100% Honestly, sometimes I think if the pandemic did not happen, I don't know if my business would have existed too. A lot of it is because I had so much downtime and time and my own thoughts. Now that we're kind of post pandemic and the busyness of life and all the kids' activities have picked up again. The pandemic just gave me a chance to really laser focus on this idea, and also a way to connect with other moms. Like I built this Lunnie Hive community because I needed this community. I was feeling lonely. And now you know, it's expanded and has continued to grow because moms really find meaningful connection. And it's important. When you say community- Tell us a little bit about that.  So the community began from the survey respondents, and then it kind of turned into this in-person product testing. But eventually, I was able to kind of translate this Lunnie Hive to social media channels and online. And so when I talk about community, what I mean is, I'm having my social media platforms, mainly Instagram, Tik Tok, as a place to just have authentic conversations about postpartum and really present it as it is, you know, I used to do like a lot more Instagram lives and like, bring in experts from- that have various knowledge, like pelvic floor PT, or an HR specialist talking about maternity leave. It's just a way to have conversations about postpartum and how to better educate women about it. But honestly, I think people really come to Lunnie as kind of a place to relate, a place to laugh, a place to vent and talk about motherhood, the good and the hard. You can be a great mom, but you don't have to love 100% of your day all day long. There are really hard moments. So yeah, that is what I mean by community.

Callan Harrington  21:35

Does that also serve as a big marketing piece for the company, just in general?

Sarah Kallile  21:39

Absolutely. So like I mentioned, when I first launched, I sold out of my first production run pretty quickly. That was because I had built up this momentum of product testers. For breastfeeding moms, you know, for many women it can be a narrow window, some moms breastfeed for months, some moms breastfeed for years. So actually, by the time I launched, a lot of my product testers weren't actually nursing anymore. They're like, "oh, my gosh, I love the bra. I can't use it. But actually, I have a friend that's going to have a baby. I'm gonna get it for her shower." So they became my natural brand evangelists, because they had been part of this process, they felt they had contributed to this bra, because they absolutely had. So that's actually something I love the most is when I see sales come through as gifts for other moms. I can actually see on my Shopify site, that baby list, which is an online registry is one of my top referral places. So women are putting the Lunnie bra on their baby registry and saying, friends, family, this is what I want you to buy. So yeah, I am forever indebted to these women, because they completely helped my brand. And as I move forward and thinking about adding other products, they're the people I go to first. Like, I just picked a new color to add to my color skew. And I was like, oh, I'll just poll all the moms in my community, perfect. And what a great place to have real time insights from the people that want to buy your product.

Callan Harrington  23:01

Are you housing that- is that like in an email list? Is it your Instagram community? Or what does that look like?

Sarah Kallile  23:06

Yeah, so when I first created the Lunnie Hive community, it was a private Facebook group. It still exists. It's not super active anymore. But that was the first place I had it. And for the women that I could not reach in person to try my bra, I was basically taking photos of the bra, I was even having one of my dear friends model the bra and I would video her to show people that 360 angle and have them give feedback. I even had everything down to my logo, and figuring out if we're going to do sans serif ends, or non sans serifs, and there was this whole poll. People were tired of me by that point. But yeah, so it started as a private Facebook group. And then as I got to kind of more sophisticated or getting closer to having actual product, then I started shifting and focusing on my public social media channels. And honestly, most of the women that were in that private group now follow my public journey. And I share a lot about my entrepreneurial journey there too. So it's cool to see so many moms that have been part of contributing to product development for a while. So yeah, it is now primarily social media, I do have an email list as well that I'm not quite as active in as I should be. But I think at first I felt like I have to keep everything really private. I don't want anyone to let on that I'm developing this cool bra. except these moms. And then eventually was like, okay, I filed for two patents, my bra's gonna be out in the world, I could be more public about it.

Jen Lyttle  24:31

So for me when I was creating my baby registry, I thought about my son. Like everything my son needee. All the crib, the sheets, the towels, the- and a lot of times women don't think about what they need. The bras, the yoga balls, anything that they need for themselves. So how often do you find that women are not self-advocating for products like this or are raising their hand finally and saying, dang, I wish I should have done this when I had my children.

Sarah Kallile  24:59

Yes. All the time, all the time. And actually, that has been a PR campaign of mine about take back the baby registry. Because women, we register for bottles for other things to feed our baby. A nursing bra is part of feeding your baby. And there's a lot of education that has to go into that. I think right now about 14% of my sales come from baby registries. So I have found actually that most of the time, when it is gifted, it is a mom gifting it to another mom. And I'm sure you've been to a lot of baby showers. The last thing my friend needs is more embroidered burp cloths with their child's name on it. That's actually not a useful gift.

Jen Lyttle  25:41

And we'll probably actually not use it. (laughs)

Sarah Kallile  25:44

But what she actually needs are things to feed her baby. This is such a beautiful and empowering gift and a functional gift. You wear it every day 24/7. So yes, I do think we still have a long ways to go in kind of normalizing women putting things on the registry. But I'm so encouraged by what I've seen so far, and I'm also just so grateful for moms who are proactively gifting this to their friends, because they know, no, this is actually what you need. This is actually what you're going to get use out of.

Jen Lyttle  26:14

So things you actually reach out after getting from friends that you cherish and are like, thank you so much for thinking of this, as another mom, that I didn't think of. There were so many people who gave me suggestions because I went twelve years between pregnancies. So everything I had with my daughter didn't even exist anymore, or there was some new technology that I was completely unaware of. And so I had a ton of mom friends reaching out saying try this thing, try this thing. And I wouldn't have had half of it if it wasn't for other moms giving me that advice. So that's interesting.

Sarah Kallile  26:46

Yeah, 100% And the cycle of baby things and must-haves changed so quickly. I've had three daughters, I had three daughters in four years. Even from my oldest to my youngest, three of our favorite things were recalled. So much of this stuff is just kind of outdated. You know, now as a third time mom, I'm like, okay, that's a bunch of noise, I can get away with the old stuff, it's fine. But when you are a new mom, it is truly an overwhelming experience to try to figure out all those things you need, and hopefully Lunnie's nursing bra can be one check off your list that you can feel really good about.

Callan Harrington  27:19

So right now, of course, all the buzz- well, I don't want to say all the buzz, but it's building a media company for your business. Did you have that in the back of your mind as you're doing this? Or was it, I've got this group 300 some people responded to this, they're super interested in this, I'm going to throw up this Facebook group and keep talking to them? Or was it some combination of both?

Sarah Kallile  27:41

I think it was a combination of both. When I started developing Lunnie, the idea of a community-led brand just seemed really smart.

Callan Harrington  27:49

For sure. Sorry, not to cut you off. But like, when I'm hearing this, I'm like man, she has nailed this.

Sarah Kallile  27:57

Well, I mean, it just makes sense. If you have this group of people that wants your product, get them involved, right? And there are some examples of other companies I've seen. But nothing truly, I don't know, intentional and obvious. Some of it was strategic. A lot of it was one step in front of the other. Right? Like I didn't know would I'd be able to like continue this momentum? Are women going to be continuing to like this idea? When I launched the product, I had no idea how it was going to sell. That was really scary, actually. And then the sales just poured in and I sobbed. I sobbed. It was so cool. It was such a validating moment, to have worked this hard on a company, amidst all the personal obstacles of being a mom during the pandemic, no outside childcare, I don't have family nearby. This was a nights and weekends project for almost a year. And then I was able to launch it and really say, okay, this is a thing, and I'm going to take it to the next level.

Jen Lyttle  28:57

And to be doing it when you have children in the phase that you're building a product for, right? Not years after or not having children. And I'm not saying that women can't develop products that they don't intentionally use. But yeah, to be in that perfect time slot of developing the product with your children in the same time is really, really cool.

Sarah Kallile  29:19

Thank you. Yes. And then I will add, you know, as I was going through the prototype process, I started it in January and then October of that same year, I found out I was pregnant with my third daughter.

Jen Lyttle  29:30

Perfect timing.

Sarah Kallile  29:31

Perfect timing. It was a little bit of a surprise. I'll be honest with you. But I decided you know what, morning sickness and nausea aside, this is actually obviously in addition to being a huge blessing for my family, this continues to allow me to be my consumer. And so I launched it in March of 2022. In April, that next month, I competed in a local competition called Flyer Pitch, it's through the University of Dayton. It was actually an eight month long pitch, and you had to go through three rounds. It started with over 100 companies. And I ended up winning first place. And I won $50,000. And I was thirty weeks pregnant. And that was a major milestone for me. And a huge validation. Because I had mentioned this first pitch competition was with female entrepreneurs, who instantly clicked with my vision. Got it. I had to say one sentence what the problem was, and everyone's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know. But Flyer Pitch was different, because it was a different panel of judges, a lot of older men. And you know, they just haven't been in my shoes. So being able to explain this problem effectively, get people to care, see the market opportunity and the potential, and then put significant money towards it. That meant a lot to me. And that showed me there is an even broader application and opportunity. So that happened to me in April. And then by May, I had sold out of my first production run. I had my third baby in June. And then I didn't have inventory for about three months, which is never a good thing as a founder. I mean, when you're a solo founder, it's not, you know, some, you're always doing something. And then I mentioned, I've also filed for two patents for my bra. That actually was funny timing, my- we finished it all up when my third girl, third baby, was five days old. So I have my patent papers, I'm holding my little baby. And actually, I surprised my mom and listed her name on the patent as well, which was a really cool moment to share with her because she helped me with that first prototype and design and I really wanted a way to recognize her. Yeah, so it's been a lot. And now I'm in this cool phase of transitioning from my small batch manufacturer to a larger manufacturer, and looking how to scale my business, add more products quickly, and really professionalize the business beyond just me.

Callan Harrington  31:50

What are the challenges in doing that?

Sarah Kallile  31:52

The challenges in doing that. So obviously, capital, how to find funding, to do inventory, debating... do I raise money? Do I take out a loan? I've mentioned, I've had grant money, fortunately, to help with that growth. What's really exciting about my new manufacturer is that they are total bra experts, they actually produce for most of the major bra retailers in the US. They don't usually work with small brands like myself, but I had connected with the owner of this factory, actually, almost two years ago, when I first had this idea. And at the time, I was like, oh, you seem so amazing, but like I just can't commit to ordering that many bras when this is a brand new idea. I don't know what I'm doing. So I decided to go small batch, which allows you to produce things in smaller units, it's at a much higher cost per unit, but you're not on the hook for as much quantity. So I went that route. Now I'm going back to that manufacturer that I had initially talked to a couple years ago. And they are basically taking my bra, they are making all the materials in house. So where before I've been outsourcing everything, even including the leak proof fabric, it is now all going to be fabricated and produced in house which lowers my cost. And that really opens the door to retail opportunities. Right now I don't have the margins to really approach retailers. But in a few months, I will. So I really see moving money from just right now it's sold direct to consumer and trying to pitch the Nordstroms so the world the Victoria's Secret, the Third Loves. I have a unique product. And I'm reaching an audience that these retailers are not. And I'm filling a void. And I've actually had some early conversations with one of those retailers that I just mentioned. And they're super interested. So my goal is actually to hopefully get part of that purchase order committed by a retailer for ahead of time when we talk about finances in a way to fund that inventory. And then just getting more help. I have one friend who has been working as my advisor for the past two years, she is actually moving into a COO role for me, she just had her first baby. So that is really exciting. But the way I've been running it with having three kids and doing it, like it's just not sustainable, and there are people that are far better experts than me at retail manufacturing that I want to leverage and just blow this thing up.

Jen Lyttle  34:18

Yeah, that's awesome.

Callan Harrington  34:20

Here's what I'm curious about. You had a lot of startup experience, and I'll just kind of give you like my personal. I read every startup book, I'd been in startups my whole life, started my own, made every single mistake. Did you find that to be the case with you? Or what- I should say, what were some of those mistakes where you like- you knew it was totally avoidable, but you still made it?

Sarah Kallile  34:41

Oh, gosh, okay. Well, a lot. So I would say working small batch manufacturing. I unfortunately have dealt with price increases beyond contract and has put me in a really tough position where I'm basically breaking even on my bras, and I refuse used to raise the price because it's already at a premium price. And I really don't think women should be paying more than that for their bras. So that has been really hard. And actually kind of accelerated my timeline and thinking, okay, I think I am ready to make the leap to larger manufacturer, because I just- I have to make some sort of profit as a business. You know, we talk about, like, I won all these pitch competitions. I also lost all these pitch competitions, too. And a few of them were early on. And I think I just didn't have an effective way of explaining my problem to people who weren't mothers. I kind of assumed people understood this. But I kind of figured out a way of spelling it out and really making people empathize, and that's by no fault of people who haven't gone through this experience. But it goes back to this thesis of postpartum is tough, because so much is not normalized or spoken about. So those have definitely been learning moments for me. I think, sometimes figuring out how to delegate. I do have a University of Dayton student who helps me as an intern, and when you are a solo founder, so much of my tasks and my business plan is in my head, because it's still being developed, right? Like I don't have this beautiful business plan with bullet points on it that I can say, Okay, here's some things you can help me with. Go ahead. It actually took me a while to figure out, okay, what are things that she's really good at that are time intensive for me that I can effectively tell her how to do? You know, that seems like kind of more basic stuff. But I think sometimes as a founder, we want to own everything or be like, oh, I'll just be faster if I do it myself. And then if you do everything yourself, because it's faster like it, it actually ends up being a lot slower. So those are some things I think I've learned along the way. And I certainly have a lot more to learn.

Callan Harrington  36:47

And of course, removing yourself from the day to day is always top of mind, because you just- it's impossible, you can't get everything done. And it's probably one of the more common themes we have on the show from founders that have really scaled their businesses is their need to get out of that and work on the business. So makes total sense. You know, you talked about this, your- is what's next for Lunnie going into the retailers and things like that? And what about the community side? Is that your plan is to grow and expand that and have that kind of be the big driving force?

Sarah Kallile  37:21

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I love that I'm able to talk about this organic growth. But I do think to expand my digital presence, I do need to spend some money towards marketing dollars. This community is the heart and soul of my brand. So I mentioned you know, during the pandemic, I focused much more on Instagram lives and bringing in experts. But now that we're doing it in person things again, I definitely see an opportunity to bringing women together and having events. And one small thing that I did is I launched recently at my first retail location, just a small boutique here in Dayton. And it was so cool. All the women that came from the community, of course, you know, lots of close friends, but lots of women that I'm like, oh my gosh, like I recognize your face from Instagram. It's so cool to see you in real life. So yeah, absolutely. I see this going. I am a passionate person when it comes to policies around bombs, particularly around paid maternity leave. And there is an organization that I really love. It's called Chamber of Mothers. I have actually I've donated sales of my bras to them before. And they basically are trying to lobby for a guaranteed paid maternity leave in the US. The US is the only country, only industrial country in the world, that does not have a paid maternity leave. The global average is twenty-nine weeks, the US is zero. And I myself experienced this when I went back to work with my first daughter, I had zero paid weeks off, I went back after eight weeks, and it was far too soon, far too soon, my body was doing all sorts of funky things still. And so I really empathize with this problem. And so you know, I know this doesn't go directly with selling bras, but this is something that I talk a lot about on social media, and try to get some an advocacy component to because we can talk all day until we're blue in the face about how things aren't great for moms in the US. But I like to see some action around it. And I really see Lunnie being able to partner with an organization like that and moving the needle forward.

Callan Harrington  39:26

Last question: if you could have a conversation with your younger self, age totally up to you, what would that conversation be and what advice would you give them?

Sarah Kallile  39:36

I think it would be just to take the first step. And it really doesn't matter what other people think. You know, like I said, even though I had this entrepreneur bug, taking the first step was the hardest thing to do, and admitting a dream out loud. Especially when a dream is in its infancy. You feel so vulnerable about it. I have listened to Sara Blakely talk a lot about Spanx, and how she built her company. And she talks about how she secretly developed Spanx for two years and did not tell a soul because she was just so scared. I did it kind of opposite because I wanted- I built a community around it, right? I had to talk about it. In my business model. But it's really scary. But I guarantee once you take that first step, you just kind of feel a freedom and moving forward. That would be my advice to younger Sarah.

Callan Harrington  40:27

Sarah, thanks for coming on today. This has been an absolute blast.

Sarah Kallile  40:31

Thank you so much, Callan and Jen, for both of your time.

Jen Lyttle  40:33

Great story.

Sarah Kallile  40:34

I really appreciate it.

Callan Harrington  40:35

I love it. I hope you enjoyed Sarah and I's conversation. I loved hearing how so much came from that original survey that she had sent out. Surveys are a great way to test an idea and you'd never know where those are going to go. If you want to learn more about Sarah, you could find her on LinkedIn and Instagram in the show notes. Also, if you liked this episode, you could find me on LinkedIn to let me know. And if you really want to support the show, a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify is very much appreciated. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you all next week.