Shelly Stotzer - CEO of Crosworks: Taking Control of Your Career, Being Your Authentic Self, and Building Your Network

Shelly Stotzer  00:00

What types of skills, experiences, certifications do I need to be where I want to be long term? And what can I take on today to help me get there? So for example, you want to be a manager and you're an individual contributor, raise your hand to take on project leadership. You don't have to manage people right away show that you can lead, even when you don't have direct authority. That will encourage people to look at you differently.

Callan Harrington  00:21

You're listening to That Worked, a show that breaks down the careers of top founders and executives, and pulls out those key items that led to their success. I'm your host, Callan Harrington, founder of Flashgrowth, and I couldn't be more excited that you're here. Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of That Worked. This week's guest, we're joined by Shelley Stotzer. Shelly is the CEO of Crosworks. And Crosworks empowers people with clarity and focus to perform their best. They work with organizations and individuals as they prepare to tackle the bigger, better things at work. They help them grow, connect, develop trust, improve engagement, and deliver results. Shelley has over 20 years of executive leadership and coaching experience across a number of different industries, and varying from large companies to startups. I'm very excited for this one. Shelley is a personal mentor of mine, and someone that I personally give a lot of credit for helping me to find the path that I'm on today. There was a point in my career where I really just kept taking the next best opportunity. And I was seeing success, but the reality was, I was not happy with what I was doing. And I- not to say I didn't enjoy the work on a day to day basis, but it wasn't giving me that fulfillment and that excitement that I was really looking for. And she really challenged me with a question that seems incredibly simple, but really just stopped me and said, "What do you want?" And the reality is I had never asked that before. I had largely taken the advice of people that I thought were very successful, and were very successful, and followed along the career path that they had suggested for me. And by working through this process of what I really want. For me, it was a lot of self reflection. Shelly provided a number of different exercises, and I did a ton of journaling, to kind of come out at the other end of that and say, okay, this is more what I want to do. This may not be the norm, and that's okay. And I just couldn't be more grateful and happy that I made that decision. And in this episode, in particular, she gave a ton of great career advice. We talked about, similar to what I just mentioned, you know, taking control of your own career path, the challenges of moving up within an organization. And one of my favorite parts is we hit on the topic of imposter syndrome. And I've personally found impostor syndrome at every single part of my career. It's been a very regular thing that's happened at each position that I that I moved up in. And Shelly, on the other hand, she really hasn't experienced that imposter syndrome. And when she was describing this, I thought it was really interesting. And I think it's a great mindset that she describes, where she really put herself in uncomfortable positions where she was forced to perform. And I think that's super valuable, whether or not you've had impostor syndrome or not, because it's- I almost look at it akin to, you can either be nervous, or you can be excited. The feeling's the exact same, but the mindset that you take on either of those is very different. And we jump into that. And we go into detail on this. And it's definitely a mindset that I'll adopt. And she gives excellent description on that. So with that, I'm going to stop talking and let's get to the show. Today's guest, we have Shelley Stotzer. Shelly is the CEO of Crosworks. Shelly, welcome to the show.

Shelly Stotzer  04:10

Thanks for having me out, Callan.

Callan Harrington  04:11

Shelly, tell us a little bit. What are you doing with Crosworks, and what does Crosworks do?

Shelly Stotzer  04:15

So Crosworks is a career and executive coaching group. And what does that mean? About half of our business comes from people who are looking for career support services. Everything from help me figure out what my next job should be, all the way through to resume writing, preparing for interviews, negotiating offers. Then the other half of our business comes from the organizations we serve. And on that side, we offer everything from executive coaching, outplacement, team building, meeting facilitation, and some clients even help us come in, or allow us to come in, and help their team members map their careers within the organization. So really, what it comes down to is we help people gain the clarity and focus to perform their best at work.

Callan Harrington  04:50

Gotcha. So you'll work with the individuals in their individual careers and you'll also work with the companies on how they can better support the team. But you brought up a really interesting one, and I think that- I mean, I could tell you this was probably one of the more important things that I was able to institute. And I'm super curious to actually even dive right into this is, do you find that a lot of people are afraid to do that? To map their careers within an organization in fear that they're going to leave?

Shelly Stotzer  05:18

Well, it depends on the organization. There's a quote that I see on LinkedIn quite often that says something along the lines of "what if I invest in my people, and they leave." And the counter-argument is, what if you don't, and they stay. So strong, confident organizations with a good culture know that they need to invest in their people. That will help the organization, that will help the individuals, and if you do things to keep them engaged and growing, odds are they're more likely to stay. There are organizations that are fearful that if they invest in their people in that way they could leave. But I wouldn't say that is the norm, at least in terms of the groups that we work with.

Callan Harrington  05:48

I've found that to be 100% the case. And you know, one of my big models was always, you're going to probably be here for a couple years. And then we're going to develop you along the way. We're going to develop you to your next part of your career. And I was in a start up. We didn't always have those positions. So my philosophy was, when you're ready to take that next step, if we can't do that for you, you need to go.

Shelly Stotzer  06:09

That's right.

Callan Harrington  06:10

And that was the biggest recruiting thing that I had, period. And people were like, go there first, and then go figure it out. But you know what ended up happening? Few people ever left! Do you find that to be the case?

Shelly Stotzer  06:20

That is usually the case, yes. The reason they're investing in you is because they want to see you grow, and they want the organization to grow. And as the organization grows, there are more opportunities. So it doesn't actually have to be a spot on the org chart today, to give you hope for the future. Do what you love, focus on doing a good job, be the best and most authentic person you can be, and the opportunities usually present themselves.

Callan Harrington  06:42

You didn't always have all this knowledge. Where did all this start out?

Shelly Stotzer  06:46

Where did it start? I don't know. I have always believed in helping people develop their careers. I remember even in college and right out of college people coming to me and saying, "Can you take a look at my resume? Can you take a look at me at this job opportunity? And tell me if it's good for me?" And I often gave them advice. But I would often ask more questions than give them answers. And that's part of coaching. We don't actually have all the answers. We just have perspective and the ability to ask good questions to help you figure it out on your own.

Callan Harrington  07:15

So what are the things that I've found in these interviews? I think really interesting is those early jobs and the impact that it had. So you were at Discover.

Shelly Stotzer  07:21

Yeah.

Callan Harrington  07:23

Walk us through that. What were you doing at that job specifically?

Shelly Stotzer  07:25

I was in the call center. I started off as a customer service rep. And then I went into handling special challenges. I forget the name of the department exactly. And then I got on tasks force where I was doing like workforce planning. All kinds of things that were, in my mind, well beyond my ability, given my age and experience at the time. I was just handed opportunities that I didn't expect there. I worked crazy hours, because I was also going to college, I was also an RA, I was also working at a pizza shop. But yes, Discover was a great learning experience for me.

Callan Harrington  07:26

How did you balance all that?

Shelly Stotzer  07:42

I don't know. How do you balance life today?

Callan Harrington  07:48

Not well.

Shelly Stotzer  07:48

I always have been pretty high energy. And I've always been a pretty quick learner and eager to take on new things. So you know, at that age, you just figure it all out. I don't think you think a lot about it.

Callan Harrington  08:11

How does that help you in what you're doing today?

Shelly Stotzer  08:14

The Discover experience?

Callan Harrington  08:15

I would say, yeah, just that you've been able to kind of handle a lot of things at once. No different as a business owner, I'm assuming? Or does that impact anything that you're doing today?

Shelly Stotzer  08:23

It's a great question. So if you look at my personality profile, which is part of what we do here, I have a high degree of interest in a variety of things. So in fact, it's fun for me to shift from activity to activity and learn different things about different areas of business. Although I didn't recognize it at that age, it's something that's always been ingrained. So I don't have a super strong passion for any particular area. I tend to gain more satisfaction by moving from doing a sales call, to working in QuickBooks, to working with the client, to figuring out how our workflow should be documented. It's something that I really enjoy.

Callan Harrington  09:00

I want to circle back to this. But when I would look at your career, you're in a lot of big companies. So after Discover, where did you go after Discover?

Shelly Stotzer  09:07

After Discover, I believe my first real job out of college was at the Kobacker Company. I was a Corporate Audit Specialist was the title. And I did a couple things. My favorite thing was I would visit stores and look through old green bar reports for things that didn't look quite right. And what I mean by that is no one could give you a document that says, when you're looking for fraud, here's what you look for, at least that I'm aware of. I just had to use my intuition to look through green bar reports and look for patterns and trends and things that didn't look just quite right. And then I would send an auditor in there to try to figure out what was going on in a store. So we would find theft and fraud and other things that were going on in the organization at the time.

Callan Harrington  09:48

How did you get into that? Seems very different than what some of the experience that you had up to that point.

Shelly Stotzer  09:52

Well, not exactly. If you think about when I was at Discover Card, it was about customer service, and then I got into handling special claims like problems with bills, claims that things weren't going right. And so when I went to the Kobacker Company, I leaned a lot on my education in terms of operations and analytics, and so forth. And my boss at the time was very open to helping me grow. He taught me a lot. And so he gave me opportunities to try things that maybe weren't traditional career paths. I wasn't there very long, though, because actually, the company was bought. So quickly thereafter, I went to Safelite AutoGlass, where I became a financial analyst. So there's an analytical component in a lot of my early work, and still today.

Callan Harrington  09:55

Was that a path that you wanted to pursue, this financial?

Shelly Stotzer  10:36

Did I want to? I think early in your career, you don't- most people, I wouldn't say all, because I'm not an all or none type of person - but a lot of people don't really know they're following a path, because it's paved in front of them, or it's what they know, or it's what someone encourages them to do. It wasn't deliberate that I got into that area.

Callan Harrington  10:53

I guess, said another way, was it more opportunistic that you were going into this? Like this good opportunity presented itself? Or was it, this is an opportunity for me to advance, I'm being intentional about this, I want to go into this field, and this was the opportunity presented itself?

Shelly Stotzer  11:10

The earlier, I wasn't deliberately focused on that as a career path. The people I knew, and the opportunities. When I- when Kobacker was bought, and my job was eliminated, my boss at Kobacker had landed at Safelite. So he opened the door for me there. And as you know, given our common network, networking is important. And so when he opened the door for me, I walked through it. It wasn't a deliberate choice to stay on that path.

Callan Harrington  11:11

I'd love to hit on a couple things here. Why, in your words, why is networking so important?

Shelly Stotzer  11:42

Oh gosh, so many reasons. And to be honest, I wasn't always great at it. I feel like I've always built authentic relationships, which has been helpful as a foundation. But I wasn't always comfortable leveraging my network, reaching out to people to ask for help. But what I have found, as I've made it further into my career, is that people want to help. And if you can explain to them what you need, and if you're authentic, and if you give back, people can open doors for you as job opportunities. They can bring perspective, they can mentor, they will do things for you to just make your life easier. Now, it's important that you give back. I think people learn pretty quickly when someone is taking, taking, taking and not giving. So I think when I talk about networking as much, it's as much about giving as it is taking.

Callan Harrington  12:30

What are some examples, somebody earlier in their career, right? I think one of the things that comes up is like, I don't really know what I can give? How can I add value to you ,who's been in career, you know, for 20-30 years? Do you have any, like examples of some things that people can do to help give to them?

Shelly Stotzer  12:47

Absolutely. It's- sometimes it's simple, like, I know of somebody who can help you babysit- or who can babysit for you. Or have you ever tried this new tool that maybe that person is not comfortable with or hasn't heard about that someone earlier in their career might be able to help teach you. Or I can run that errand for you, or I know someone who does that. It's not about age, it's about perspective. Perspective comes from a variety of different angles.

Callan Harrington  13:12

That is such good advice. One of the things that we don't think about is that we don't know what's important to somebody or what's not, right. We don't need somebody to introduce us to the next Fortune 500 CEO, nor expect that. But the personal life things that, you know, there's those little things like you mentioned: babysitting, that's huge. A trustworthy person that's being recommended to do something like that. That relieves a bigger burden than most all of the business things. Those are such good examples. I'm glad you shared that.

Shelly Stotzer  13:43

It comes down to getting to know someone authentically. Like I used the word authentic a few times already, I recognize that. But I've found also, as I've grown in my career, that the more you understand yourself, and the more authentic you can be with that person and let them be authentic too, you can figure out those real connections.

Callan Harrington  14:00

What's authenticity to you?

Shelly Stotzer  14:02

It is understanding yourself and being yourself. I'm not saying that you shouldn't adjust your style, or understand your audience, because you do need to do those two things too. But you should always stay at your core who you are, and look for opportunities to leverage that.

Callan Harrington  14:20

Do you find that when you're more of your authentic self, that you attract more people that are similar minded to you, and filter out people that are not? And is that a challenge?

Shelly Stotzer  14:33

That is a fantastic question. I would say the relationships you develop are more deep or deeper. But depending on your personality, I think will determine whether you filter out people who are different than you. So for example, one of my favorite friends said to me, "you are non judgmental, you're so open minded." And I take that as a huge compliment. And so I attract people who are also open minded and non judgmental, and with that you can have conversations that are very open, where you can learn different things, even if they think very differently than you.

Callan Harrington  15:05

Yeah. How valuable? Do you place a value on having people around you that think differently?

Shelly Stotzer  15:11

Absolutely. In fact, I remember, I don't know, maybe fifteen years ago, I did a workshop with my team at Highlights for Children. I, at the time, brought in a video about Google. And how when you search on Google, what you click on is going to determine the results that come up next time you search on Google. So if you constantly are looking for data and information that reinforces what you already believe, your bubble is going to get tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter. And I think you have to be very careful of that.

Callan Harrington  15:38

Yeah, confirmation bias. It can creep in at almost any point. And I will say I- earlier in my career, I would build my team to look exactly like me, which led to the same ideas all the time. It wasn't till later, I was like, I have to change this. This doesn't make sense. And not to say that that can't work. I just think that there's better ways in which you can do it. I think you just hit on those, like the reasons why, to the T. So, you brought up Highlights. You were at Highlights for a long time. Where did you start out at Highlights?

Shelly Stotzer  16:07

I started off as a financial analyst.

Callan Harrington  16:09

Where'd you end up?

Shelly Stotzer  16:10

I was the Chief Operating Officer and Chief Marketing Officer of their consumer division.

Callan Harrington  16:15

How did you do that?

Shelly Stotzer  16:16

Oh, over nineteen years, a lot of hard work, a lot of curiosity, a lot of willing to take on projects that were maybe outside my comfort zone, building trust and respect from the team, living their values. Which, by the way, you can build a team with very different styles and beliefs, as long as you're grounded in common mission, vision, purpose and values. That's a little old school, in terms of language. But we find that to be true over and over again.

Callan Harrington  16:43

How do you do that?

Shelly Stotzer  16:44

There are a number of different ways. You can look at people's behaviors, you can make sure that you are aligning people on a regular basis, in terms of bringing them into a room and collaborating on what that should look like. And over time, you'll figure out who's not living the values that are important to the organization.

Callan Harrington  17:01

You broughtup something again, that I think I'd love to dive into a little bit deeper. Where you said, "I kept taking on things that were outside of my job, or outside of what I knew how to do." Were those things that you proactively sought out and just started doing, or did you have a good mentor or boss that was there that was saying, "hey, Shelly, I'm throwing this on here. I know you're capable of it." Or is it a mixture of both?

Shelly Stotzer  17:27

That is a great question, and something I feel really passionately about. It's both. You know, one side of that, one of those parties could be a little more active than the other in certain situations. But more often than not, what I see is when people are really growing in an organization, it's because both they have taken on the risk of saying this is what I love, raising their hand, taking things on. And having someone in the organization who supports them through that, is willing to give them the chance, have their back, give them the tools, and invest in them.

Callan Harrington  17:57

How does somebody that's in the role that wants to advance take on some of that of their own? How do they take a little bit more control over that, as opposed to waiting for somebody to kind of make that happen for them?

Shelly Stotzer  18:09

The first thing I ask people is why? Why do you want that job? And I think that's important. Is it about title? Is it about money? Is it because you're curious and interested in that work? And I think that matters. And I think you need to be honest with yourself about what you're trying to do. Because once you understand what you're trying to do, or why you're- Actually, once you understand why you want to do it, the how could vary. So what project do you want to take on and why? We encourage people to step back and say, Where do I want to be in five years? Where do I want to be in three years? Where do I want to be in one year? And what types of skills, experiences, certifications do I need to be where I want to be long term? And what can I take on today to help me get there? So for example, you want to be a manager and you're an individual contributor, raise your hand to take on project leadership. You don't have to manage people right away. Show that you can lead, even when you don't have direct authority. That will encourage people to look at you differently. Or let's say you want to be in a clinical job that you don't have the certification for. Raise your hand. Put it in your annual goals to say I'd love to go to school and go through the certification process to get this, and see if they support you. There are lots of ways to demonstrate your commitment to that next level without sitting back and waiting for someone to tell you what to do.

Callan Harrington  19:20

That project leader- I've never heard that. That is such a good idea. Because it is- it's tough. A lot of people- you can't just say, "Hey, give me a couple of direct reports." But you can lead a project to demonstrate your ability to listen, understand, organize, which are all going to be key traits of a leader. On the flip side of this as a leader, how do you help move somebody along and also make sure that that's the right fit to be moving that person along?

Shelly Stotzer  19:47

So companies- usually leaders in companies don't have a lot of time to sit down with one person and really understand them. Typically what you see is in an organization, if you're working with the leader of sales, for example, and you have a salesperson, you're going to move them up the ranks in sales. Something that's a challenge is as a leader to say, where does this person really fit? And what are opportunities not just within my group, because not everyone is actually best fit to move up within the category that they're in. So speaking to that, I started off in financial analysis, marketing analysis. I was decent at it, I moved up the ranks doing that, but that is not where my passions lie. I like helping people, I like solving problems. I'm more on the operational side and the leadership side than the analytical, sitting behind a computer and working with number side. So I had to recognize that and reinvent myself. So your question goes back to what can a leader do, the leader needs to get to know that person or give them the tools to understand themselves, so they don't become too narrow minded, in terms of what the next right move might be. It's not always directly up that line. It could be sideways, it could be down, it could be over, there are a lot of different ways that you can give people opportunities to grow and develop.

Callan Harrington  21:01

So what were some of the challenges? You went all the way to the top right? What were the biggest challenges and hurdles that you had to get over along the way from starting out as a financial analyst, and then making it to COO?

Shelly Stotzer  21:14

So this is really common, not just in my experience, but in those that we coach. There are a few steps that I find are bigger hurdles than others. So for example, when you get promoted above your peers, that's one step. Because your peers you used to sit at the table with. How they see you, how you treat them, restructuring your relationship with them in a way that's healthy is important. So going from an individual contributor with your peers to being promoted above them can be one challenge. Another challenge is when you move up high enough in the organization where you can't be the expert in the areas that you lead anymore. So learning how to let go and delegate and not be the knowledge expert and empowering others is another really tough step. I remember saying to someone now that I'm managing vice presidents over areas that they are way more expert than I am, I have to change the way I lead, what I bring to the table has to change. And so with each move in the leadership pipeline, you have to adjust how you spend your time where you add value, how you lead, and not everyone's cut out to do that. Not everyone's cut out to be an entrepreneur, not everyone's cut out to be a leader, and not everyone's cut out to go up the line. You can get more experiences and learn a lot. By changing the complexity of your work, the volume of your work, there are other ways to also grow in your career.

Callan Harrington  22:31

I think that's one I just want to underline. Not to use the business cliche term "underline." But what you said in particular is- I talk about this all the time, especially in sales- this is super common, where people are like, "well, if I want to grow, I have to go into leadership." Do you want to be in a leadership role? "Well, no, but that's kind of the next stage of my career." If you're driven by money and autonomy, there is no position that's going to fit that better than being a top individual contributor. Not even close. Nobody. You make more than the CEO if you're the top individual contributor, and you're gonna have more flexibility. Because I will tell you this, I don't- you know, people can say whatever they want. But if you're the top enterprise rep, you close one gigantic deal a year? You're not getting fired. I don't care what that quota is, unless you're just a horrible culture fit. But the reality is, you just have flexibility in that, right? You've got- you're going to take on the pressure and everything else that comes with it. But that's a great route. I think that's such a good point that you bring up. So, you're at Highlights for nineteen years, moved up, went through all of these hurdles, which are significant hurdles to get over. And some people want to do it, some people don't. You left to the exact opposite. You mean- so meaning like Highlights over 350 employees, and then you bought Crosworks. What led to that decision?

Shelly Stotzer  23:46

Actually, there's a step in between. I hired Crosworks when I decided to leave Highlights. I had been there nineteen years, I knew that it was time for me to move on, but I actually wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to do next. And I had such a broad set of experiences that people didn't know what to do with me. So I hired Crosworks to help me figure out what my career path was. And I came out of there saying, you know what, I want to build something, I want to start something, I want to be either the CEO or the COO of a very small, but great opportunity, in either the healthcare or energy industry. And from there, I went on to IGS Energy, where I worked with their team to start up their residential solar division. Then I was there for about a couple years. That's when I left there. So it wasn't quite a big leap from Highlights for Children to Crosworks. I had that interim step in between.

Callan Harrington  24:34

IGS, still a big company. So why move to this smaller company where, with your mentality of building it, you weren't just gonna go in there and have this just be a pure lifestyle business, right? I only know this just from what I've seen the growth of Crosworks. Why do it? Why take that jump?

Shelly Stotzer  24:52

So to help tell that story, it's probably important to step back a little bit and say, the culture- even though Highlights for Children and IGS are both privately owned, relatively large companies, the cultures were very, very different. And that's something we talk a lot about is it's not just what role you play, but it's the culture you work in, the person you report to. IGS was much faster moving, very fast moving. And even though it's a large organization, that division, the residential solar division, had a lot of autonomy, and it felt like a startup environment. So when I left IGS Energy, I took six months off, just to kind of catch my breath. I had been traveling a lot, I had two teenage daughters, I was remodeling my house. I really just needed to catch my breath and refocus on what I wanted to do next. And to be honest, my first thought wasn't I was going to buy a small business. I just needed to breathe. But during that time, I kept going back to my career dashboard that I created when I left Highlights for Children. And the opportunity to buy Crosworks kept surfacing. It matched my values, it leveraged all of my natural skills, it was an environment, lots of great content, great opportunity. And I wanted to spend more time with my family to be quite honest. So I originally bought it, not as a lifestyle business, but as an opportunity to step back and kind of have more control over my own destiny.

Callan Harrington  26:13

How much of it is objective, what you have on the chart, versus gut feeling?

Shelly Stotzer  26:19

Well, in the Myers Briggs, I'm an ENTP. So that N means I follow my intuition quite a bit. Even though I come from an analytical background, I am more intuitive. I would say it's probably 60% intuition, 40% objective data. That said, what I have found with my intuition, and I believe this to be true for most people, your intuition comes from somewhere. And it might not be data on a piece of paper, it might be life experiences, it might be things you've read, it might be. But I think that that intuition is grounded in something, and I can't always articulate what that is. So I would say 60/40, just straight out answer, 60% intuition, 40% data, objectivity. But I think that intuition is grounded in more data and facts and experiences than I can articulate.

Callan Harrington  27:06

Given that, have you found that you followed your gut more as you've had more experience in your career than you did earlier in your career?

Shelly Stotzer  27:14

I think I've always followed my gut.

Callan Harrington  27:15

So this was something that was just always innate in you?

Shelly Stotzer  27:18

Yeah. Someone once asked me when I was at Highlights, "are you going to be here forever?" Because at a certain point, like nineteen years, people are like, "oh, she's a lifer." And I said, no, I'll be here until it doesn't feel right. Until I'm not having fun anymore. And so that's always been part of my DNA. And I can't even articulate why I make decisions the way that I do. When I look back often I can see it more objectively. But when I'm actually making the decision, I'm not always really great at articulating why,

Callan Harrington  27:44

Now that you've been in Crosworks for some time, how's the transition been?

Shelly Stotzer  27:48

Great. I love it. As a business owner, days- some days are hard. When a project doesn't come through, or a system fails, or there's change in the team. It's hard. So every day is not easy. But you know what, everyday wasn't easy when I was in corporate America either. So I'm really happy that I made the change, especially at this stage of my life. I love what I do. I love the emails we receive, the feedback we receive, the reviews we receive, the relationships I create. I'm someone who likes tangible outcomes. So those reviews and notes and things like that mean a lot to me. But I'm really proud of the work that we do. I'm really proud of the team I've created. And every day is not easy. But more than not, I wake up thinking I'm really excited to go in today.

Callan Harrington  28:32

The interesting thing is, if you tie that back to every single one of these positions that you said, the biggest theme that I've kind of picked up on through this is it gives you that ability to keep on taking new things. You have control over how much you're stressed- er, uh, stressed- (laughs) You don't got control of that! - You have control over how much you're stretched. But you have the opportunity to continue stretching. Have you found that to be the case?

Shelly Stotzer  28:56

That is the case. Yes. In fact, someone once said- asked me a question about imposter syndrome. And I said, you know what, as soon as I get comfortable with something, I tend to move on to something different or new. So I feel like I almost always have a certain sense of, Can I do this? How am I going to do this? What's the best way to do this? So I've always got that sense of curiosity and stretching myself. It's like I can't settle. I don't know where that comes from.

Callan Harrington  29:20

So are you saying you don't feel the imposter syndrome? Or that you're seeking out situations where you feel impostor syndrome?

Shelly Stotzer  29:26

The latter. I'm seeking out situations or I'm almost always putting myself in situations where I'm uncomfortable, and I'm not sure, but I do it. And even if I have a great track record, I still always have that sense of: oh my gosh, how am I going to do this? Is this going to work? I tend to get bored if I'm not challenged in that way.

Callan Harrington  29:44

So you feel that you have to have impost- Do you find impostor syndrome is actually a motivator for you?

Shelly Stotzer  29:50

That exactly. And I know a lot of people don't see it that way. But to me, I put that- I align it with that sense of: I'm uncomfortable, I'm challenged, I'm uncertain, but I'm okay with that.

Callan Harrington  30:00

Was impostor syndrome there at every time that you took this next leap?

Shelly Stotzer  30:04

Yes, I would say so.

Callan Harrington  30:06

Would that change? If you didn't feel that, do you think that you would have been in the position that you're in today?

Shelly Stotzer  30:13

No.

Callan Harrington  30:13

So imposter syndrome, in your eyes and how this is, is a huge positive.

Shelly Stotzer  30:18

I'm tying impostor syndrome with the concept of being uncomfortable and stretched and doing something that's outside of your comfort zone. Yeah.

Callan Harrington  30:27

Do you have the feeling from imposter syndrome, when you're in some of these roles of: they hired the wrong person here?

Shelly Stotzer  30:33

No.

Callan Harrington  30:33

Interesting. Have you ever felt that?

Shelly Stotzer  30:33

No. And as I say that, I feel like it sounds a little bit egotistical. I am just a hard working, curious, I will bust my rear to make sure it works. So I will do whatever it takes. I will bring in resources, I will research I will figure it out. So even if I'm not feeling 100% confident that I have the answer right now, I'm confident that I'll figure it out. And I'm confident that my motivation is right, that my commitment is strong. So if I feel like I'm not the right person, I'm going to find something else to do.

Callan Harrington  30:34

That's interesting. So you're looking at it from the standpoint of: I'm okay with not being the right person. If I'm hearing that it's not that this job is like this is it for me, if I'm not successful in this role, then you know, I'm defined by this. For you, it's: if I'm not successful in this role, I'm going to go make myself uncomfortable in some other role, and help- and say, "here's the person to put in this role. This isn't me." is that correct?

Shelly Stotzer  31:35

I found the person to replace me when I left Highlights for Children.

Callan Harrington  31:38

That's so interesting. I think that's such a positive way of- now, you know, like, I will say that with myself, personally, I've had impostor syndrome in every role I've ever taken. And very much so it's from the standpoint of: they've hired the wrong person. Like, I don't know anything about this. I'm failing all of these people. And I used it as a motivator. And it's probably- I don't know- it's debatable whether that's healthy or not, but I use that as a motivator from the standpoint of: okay, I'm in it, I'm going to perform in this, right? I'm not going to let these people down, I'm going to learn, I'm gonna do all the things that I've had. But I hadn't thought about it from the viewpoint of taking the mindset of: look, I'm going to go into this, it's uncomfortable, I've got a healthy confidence that I'm going to be able to perform in that. But if I'm not that, I'm going to help transition that. Is that essentially it?

Shelly Stotzer  32:22

Yeah, I wouldn't say I go in with the attitude that it's not, though. Like, I just know that my gut that if it doesn't work, I'll figure something out. I once said to my daughters: it'll be okay. It has to be. What other option do we have? So that's kind of like a core sensibility that I have. I go into it expecting it to work. I do a lot of research, I follow my gut, I go into it expecting it to work, but I always know that if it doesn't, it'll be okay.

Callan Harrington  32:45

How did you find- that's a perfect entrepreneur- that's the perfect startup mentality. I mean, a lot of times you have to. You have to go into this- I've made the reference before. It's akin to going into a mountain. You're digging your way into a mountain. And ideally, you're gonna see light at the end of whatever the tunnel is, but you might not. You're putting yourself in a bigger forcing function in putting ourselves into the job, and just figuring out how I'm going to do this, because that's my only option. You're giving yourself this only option. Well, your other option is we can put somebody else into it. But that's not really an option. For you. I can tell you right now, there's no way I believe that's an option. You're- is that right? Am I right in that?

Shelly Stotzer  33:23

Yeah, to some degree you are. And you know, the other thing is, everyone has to get there. The person above you didn't do every job that reports to them. They had to get there somehow. So, you know, it's just part of growth and learning and experience. And everyone puts their pants on one leg at a time, right? Or whatever that saying is. Everyone s-

Callan Harrington  33:41

I do two. Two legs at a- no, sorry! (laughs)

Shelly Stotzer  33:41

Hold them up, jump in.

Callan Harrington  33:45

No, I jump in every time.

Shelly Stotzer  33:47

So you know, I think that I recognize that everyone's human. Everyone got there climbing, more often than not. Not everyone- again, I have to be careful with those all or nothing, everyone and/or no one. But a lot of people got to where they are by taking those chances, and trying new things, and putting themselves in situations that were uncomfortable.

Callan Harrington  34:05

If you could have a conversation with your younger self, what advice would you give them and age is totally open? .

Shelly Stotzer  34:13

Hmm. So I would start by saying, understand who you are and what you believe first. I would say earlier in my career, even though I followed my intuition, I understood my audience first before I understood myself. And it helped me, but I think I could have had the same result with out swimming upstream as hard to get there if I would have understood myself better. So understand yourself. Stay true to yourself. Follow your gut. Anytime my gut says don't do it, and I do, I regret it. Those are some things I would say to myself when I was younger. Things I know now, but I didn't know then.

Callan Harrington  34:50

Shelly, thanks for coming on the show. This has been a blast.

Shelly Stotzer  34:52

I always enjoy spending time with you, Callan.

Callan Harrington  34:54

I love it.  I hope you enjoyed Shelly and I's conversation. I love the mindset of putting yourself in uncomfortable situations to stretch your skill set and rapidly learn. If you want to learn more about Shelly, you could find her on LinkedIn, as well as Crosworks.com. That's C-R-O-S-W-O-R-K-S.com. If you liked this episode, you could find me on LinkedIn to let me know. And if you really want to support the show, a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify is very much appreciated. Thanks for listening today and see you next week.